Up to 150 youngsters treated with puberty-blocking jabs 'might not even be transgender'

[hungryhippie]

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5978515/Up-150-youngsters-treated-puberty-blocking-jabs-not-transgender.html

Tory MP David Davies said it could be a scandal and 'the NHS needs to fully investigate'

Lets hope so! Its scandalous
Im an autistic woman myself and my eldest son is also.

@Peoplepeoplepeople

What I hadn't realised as I am not following things too closely was that it has been said birth certificates are a violence to trans people or something along those lines. Please read the in convention for the rights of the child article 7. To actually get rid of certificates that means the UK breaking that convention. Has anyone looked at this? I was reading it for entirely different reasons.

www.un.org/development/desa/disabilities/convention-on-the-rights-of-persons-with-disabilities/article-7-children-with-disabilities.html

Great thread, will read properly later..

Not the disability one. This one: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.unicef.org.uk/what-we-do/un-convention-child-rights/amp/

rticle 7

1. The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality and. as far as possible, the right to know and be cared for by his or her parents.

1. States Parties shall ensure the implementation of these rights in accordance with their national law and their obligations under the relevant international instruments in this field, in particular where the child would otherwise be stateless.

However there is one MAJOR isssue with this piece. It still perpetuates the idea that there is such a thing as a transgender child. And until we dispel that idea the harm will continue.

It's shocking.

My DD was 'persistent, insistent and consistent' for over 3 years from the age of 13 that she was a boy. She also has ASD and mental health issues. In our experience the Tavistock staff were kind and thoughtful professionals but there is no doubt they are under huge pressure from the likes of Mermaids. Blockers were potentially on the table at age 15 for my DD with testosterone at 16, however me and DP refused to let her have treatment until she was 18 (supported her choice of clothes/haircut/name and pronouns). Thank fuck we held out as 2 months ago she decided she isn't trans and now accepts there were other reasons for her dysphoria. This followed a significant improvement in her mental health due to getting the right care from Camhs at last. I feel really strongly that watchful waiting coupled with support and acceptance as far as possible is the right approach for the majority of these children and young people.

Sadly Nellie, not all children will be lucky enough to have parents who are willing (or able) to protect their children, like you did yours.

This needs to be on the main boards. Most people don't have a clue about this.

That's why we need to keep commenting and bumping it up as it were.
It will reach more people.

People need to read the thread from the beginning and really think about things.

A huge number has been done on society and the sad thing is, the majority of people can't even see it.
It makes me think of the story of the frog that's in a saucepan that's being heated up ever so slightly so that the frog doesn't notice.
when it does notice, it's too late.

I think the very best thing that the CMO could do is clarify and make explicit the difference between sex and gender and recognise the widespread confusion /potential risks / issues / obfuscation and / or misunderstandings which currently exist.

Somebody has to do this as a matter of urgency. The world has gone mad.

Somebody has to do this as a matter of urgency. The world has gone mad

Plain English Campaign?
www.plainenglish.co.uk

One of the other issues with the NHS choices page is that the evidence for hormone treatment and surgery is not clear or robust, yet the treatment options are presented as settled science.

This document provides the evidence base for NHS treatment (p 8 onwards) and it is eye opening:
www.engage.england.nhs.uk/consultation/specialised-services-consultation/user_uploads/gendr-ident-policy.pdf

Overall, there is only limited evidence to demonstrate the efficacy of hormonal therapy or gender reassignment surgery with regard to long-term complications or physical functional status"

Very moving response on Twitter to this from an adult woman with ASD.

twitter.com/emmasalmon66/status/1020969683430924288

If easier, this is a threadapp version: threadreaderapp.com/thread/1020969683430924288.html

Janice Turner:

twitter.com/VictoriaPeckham/status/1021010938764431362

I had the misfortune to be given GnRH analogues for endometriosis.

The side effects were horrific. My consultant was very clear that the effects are so severe that the hormones could only be taken for three to six months. For example the decrease in bone density is typically four to six% after just six months. This was actually the least of my worries given the total loss of libido and fact I felt like a different person.

I am horrified that these hormones are being described as harmless and reversible.

More details about the side effects here:
endometriosis.org/treatments/gnrh/

Has Ben Goldacre (of the Bad Science columns and website) looked into this, I wonder?

I've never seen any tweets from him about this. One of the big problems here is that anybody who depends on public funding, and I think he does, as an academic looking for grant funding for his research, is that if you attract the label transphobe or you aren't seen to be trans-inclusive, you risk not getting the funding. It compromises academic and clinical integrity to have the government taking this line without any scientific backing for it.

It compromises academic and clinical integrity to have the government taking this line without any scientific backing for it.

Damn right it does. I can’t think of another issue that’s done this to this extent.

This is awful. But I'd bet anything to say that the figure is so, so much higher than that. I know of several kids in my small city who are on blockers, and I constantly hear of others who are waiting for them.

I'm so glad I was never taken for any "gender appointments" as a child. Yes, I am transsexual. Yes, the dysphoria I experience is often uncomfortable, distressing and painful. But most of these children will not grow up to experience physical bodily dysphoria, and it's shocking to see that people are harming their kids when the condition has an overwhelmingly high desistance rate. If I'd been shoved on blockers as a kid, I'd have hated it - biological puberty needs to occur, for so many reasons.

I strongly suspect I am on the spectrum but undiagnosed. From the age of 4-8 I desperately wanted to be a rabbit and live with rabbits. I was 'persistent, insistent and consistent' .Every day at 4 years old I told my nursery teachers that I was going to run away that night to join the rabbits. I had my bag packed. I was referred to a child psychologist but my mum didn't let me see them as she believed my fixation stemmed from watching Watership Down- it did. I went from that to wanting to be a boy because I wanted to be like George from the Famous Five. I had short hair, never wore female clothes and had a boys name that my family used. If trans had been a thing I could have so easily gone down that route. I just decided really that I was quite androgynous, shaved my head in my late teens and got on with it...

Thank fuck for sensible parents, I am neither living in a hole in a rabbit onesie or pumping a pretend testicle but a happy GNC woman

It compromises academic and clinical integrity to have the government taking this line without any scientific backing for it.

So true.

Olenna ditto Sense about Science.

Sense about Science is a charity campaigning for evidence-based public policy: they produce good fact sheets and they run a science prize: with nominations NOW OPEN for 2018 ^^ senseaboutscience.org/activities/the-john-maddox-prize/

The John Maddox Prize recognises the work of individuals who promote sound science and evidence on a matter of public interest, facing difficulty or hostility in doing so.

I think we should nominate the academic James Caspian, whose research about detransitioners was blocked. I am sure there are others doing important work in this field too. A range of names would be great. (I would love to nominate Kathleen Stock because she gets horrendously piled on just for asking questions, but she’s not a scientist.)

More on James Caspian’s research:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3042941-Gender-surgery-regret-Academic-blocked-from-researching-it

Researching the experiences of detransitioned people and their physical and mental health outcomes is essential because this group faces multiple burdens:
the difficulties of social de-transition, physical changes which they may very much regret- including around infertility after hormones or surgery on their reproductive or sexual organs. Side effects from drugs. Then they face a load of abuse just for talking about their own personal experiences because the only TRA- permitted narrative is that transitioned people will live happily ever after.
It sounds a really dreadful situation to be in. Why would anyone want to block that research from taking place?

bowl The response I got from bbc was that they aim for the pages to be neutral & were sending it to the writers to review.
I was slow off the mark so maybe the number of complaints have made them change their response?

I am appalled to think that not only will these children be rendered infertile with crumbling bones but their feeling sexual organs are being replaced with insensitive holes and pseudo-penises that possibly might give satisfaction to their partners but will never allow them to experience the pleasure of sex.

Oh that’s great waddle

It shouldn’t be the writers that review it - it should be impartial medical professionals.

Good they have done that though!

Thank fuck for sensible parents, I am neither living in a hole in a rabbit onesie or pumping a pretend testicle but a happy GNC woman

Glad to hear it Penny. Am that you decided you wanted to be a rabbit after watching watership down though! It doesn't go well for them!

The side effects were horrific. My consultant was very clear that the effects are so severe that the hormones could only be taken for three to six months

And potentially they are giving them to children for years. And supporters are so so ignorant of these side effects (or don't care about the collateral damage). They just parrot "harmless" and "reversible".