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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Up to 150 youngsters treated with puberty-blocking jabs 'might not even be transgender'

123 replies

hungryhippie · 22/07/2018 01:54

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5978515/Up-150-youngsters-treated-puberty-blocking-jabs-not-transgender.html

Tory MP David Davies said it could be a scandal and 'the NHS needs to fully investigate'

Lets hope so! Its scandalous
Im an autistic woman myself and my eldest son is also.

OP posts:
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6
Ereshkigal · 23/07/2018 08:13

A huge number has been done on society and the sad thing is, the majority of people can't even see it.
^It makes me think of the story of the frog that's in a saucepan that's being heated up ever so slightly so that the frog doesn't notice.
when it does notice, it's too late.^

YY. It's a good analogy.

Ereshkigal · 23/07/2018 08:16

But I have saved the exchange, so when the scandal breaks and fingers are pointed towards the BBC then they can't say they weren't warned.

We need to start taking this angle in our correspondence with them.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 23/07/2018 11:58

Bowl i've asked if they have a timeline & if they will lmk what decision is made but havent had a response yet.

It shows how right you were to remind us to complain Flowers we need to keep doing it wherever we find dangerous misinformation about these drugs.

Datun · 23/07/2018 12:16

I am appalled to think that not only will these children be rendered infertile with crumbling bones but their feeling sexual organs are being replaced with insensitive holes and pseudo-penises that possibly might give satisfaction to their partners but will never allow them to experience the pleasure of sex.

This also gets to me, profoundly. It's as if the advisors and surgeons literally view a vagina as something to be penetrated and wanked into. That's it.

HawkeyeInConfusion · 23/07/2018 14:33

I'm glad you had more success Waddle. Hopefully they'll actually do something and it's not just a tactic to fob you off.

BettyDuMonde · 23/07/2018 17:34

Same publication, just a week ago, Juno Dawson claims that transitioning children are a myth:

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5943915/Transgender-author-reveals-fears-murdered-street.html

BettyDuMonde · 23/07/2018 17:36

(JD is a pretty well known author of fiction for teens, so likely has more name recognition than the average transperson amongst teens and teachers/school librarians)

ChattyLion · 24/07/2018 21:26

From the NHS choices website:
www.nhs.uk/aboutNHSChoices/aboutnhschoices/Aboutus/Pages/Governance.aspx

Governance of the NHS website (www.nhs.uk)

The NHS website (www.nhs.uk) is funded by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC). The content, data and services on the website are commissioned by NHS England and delivered by NHS Digital.

I wonder how the misogynistic, misleading assertion by NHS Choices pages about gender dysphoria (www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/)

  • eg that a ‘functioning’ ‘vagina’ Hmm that has been formed by surgery actually IS well you know ... a functioning vagina, (asserted purely on account of the surgery then creating a new, passive hole within a biologically male person’s body, that can be penetrated) stands up against their equality and diversity policy?
-Ditto the assertion that they can create a ‘functioning’ ‘penis’ for a transman? Which is not true, either. -ditto claims about the gnrh analogues (puberty blockers) for kids where risks are hugely understated

So while being disparagingly, reductive in their description of naturally-occurring sexual organs (by equating them to the surgically created ‘versions’) NHS Choices are also arguably discriminating against trans people, by offering them less factual information about the risks and benefits of NHS treatment aimed uniquely at trans people (of all ages) compared to info that they offer to other patient groups about other medical procedures. Thus uniquely compromising the informed consent of the trans patient body. Which would be actually transphobic.

So.. noting that the Department of Health funds the NHS websites: their policy protects the characteristics of both sex and gender reassignment:
www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-of-health/about/equality-and-diversity

NHS England had so much material I couldn’t find one statement on the protected characteristics that they recognise- and I didn’t see a lot about sex based inequality... but others may have more luck with the multiple documents here!:
www.england.nhs.uk/about/equality/

I did spot this:
(Page 7) 1.2 Governance
Ultimate responsibility for the affairs of NHS England including compliance with the public sector Equality Duty and our other legal duties rests with NHS England’s Board. Our Board consists of a Chair and eight non-executive directors and four voting executive directors. A number of non-voting executive directors regularly attend Board meetings. Board members bring a range of complementary skills and experience in areas such as finance, governance, health policy, health inequalities and equalities. Key areas of the Board’s governance responsibilities support effective compliance with the duties to reduce health inequalities and the public sector Equality Duty. NHS England then assigns staff internally to give effect to this agenda and work programme.
www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/NHS-England-SED-Response.pdf

NHS digital say:
Service objectives
Guided by industry best practice, when we communicate with the public and service users, we will seek to deliver clearer, more representative, and more accessible information and guidance.
We will establish a network of staff who will investigate the ways in which we can ensure that our products, policies and behaviours reflect the communities we serve and do not disadvantage or otherwise negatively impact the public and users of our services.
As the trusted national provider of high-quality information and data about health and social care, we will improve our focus on protected characteristics in the information that we collect and share. By doing so, we will improve knowledge about the health of, and care experienced by, those with protected characteristics*.

digital.nhs.uk/about-nhs-digital/corporate-information-and-documents/how-we-support-diversity-and-inclusion

Finally- Also noting that there is an NHS equality and diversity Council who might be interested in this issue- contacts at foot of page:

www.england.nhs.uk/about/equality/equality-hub/edc/

Ereshkigal · 24/07/2018 22:26

No Juno you are not in any way, shape or form a "feminist campaigner". Feminism is by, for and about women. Soz.

foxyliz26 · 25/07/2018 01:00

Lupron is supposedly the wonder drug , its alo the only hope for Endometriosis sufferers, and girls with precocious puberty

which I am reliably informed by another solicitor dealing with other cases PP is on the increase , they may be up to 500 young girls going through puberty as young as 3 or 4 years of age which usually without medication would cause the girls mostly to start the menopause before they are 18 in some cases

so without Lupron they might not be able to have children

Wanderabout · 25/07/2018 06:23

Foxy not sure how that is relevant to this thread?

Starkstaring · 25/07/2018 07:05

Chatty - Stirling work. The information on those pages is a mess. I expect it was a fudge tho - pressure from patient groups v clinical information.

Bowlofbabelfish · 25/07/2018 07:38

foxy

I wouldn’t call Lupron a wonder drug. It’s more that it’s all there is at the moment for precocious puberty that’s gonadotropin dependent. PP isn’t always treated with these drugs - it can be a sign of tumours elsewhere in the body or even something the child has come into contact with (there have been cases where caregivers have been using oestrogen or testosterone creams for example.)

They are a very powerful very blunt tool with a wide range of action.

Anyway, PP and endometriosis and prostate cancer are what the drug has been tested in and licenced for - there is no justification to give such a strong drug with so many harmful side effects to anyone healthy. It’s akin to giving everyone chemotherapy because 1/3 of women get breast cancer at some point.

Children suffering from PP, women with endometriosis and men with prostate cancer have a clinical need - healthy children going through a fairly normal identity questioning process in puberty do not.

R0wantrees · 25/07/2018 10:58

I was thinking that it may be worthwhile people sending the NHS concerns to Dr Sarah Wollaston MP. She is a medic and Head of the Health Select Committee.

She has also demonstrated that she will stand up against the Conservative party line when she disagrees.

She can only respond to constituents' concerns (Totnes) through the office. www.drsarah.org.uk/contact/contact-sarah

but:
Health Select Committee

If you are writing to me in my role as Chair of the Health Select Committee, you need to send your correspondence either by post to:

Health Committee
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA
Telephone: 020 7219 6182

or email: [email protected]

BettyDuMonde · 25/07/2018 11:18

My school mate had blockers for precocious puberty - she’s in her 40s now and her health is a mess.
Purely anecdotal, of course, but whenever the discussion comes up re:trans use she is always my first thought.

Ereshkigal · 25/07/2018 18:40

Good idea Rowan.

pombear · 25/07/2018 19:04

I don't have much to add to this thread, other than it deserves to sit up at the top alongside the 'this is really worrying' and 'Daughter is ROGD' right now, as the three are aligned.

Bumpity bump.

ChattyLion · 25/07/2018 20:31

Great idea about Sarah Wollaston R0wan

TransplantsArePlants · 18/08/2018 18:11

Missed this thread entirely as I was on holiday. Really really important, so I am bumping it.

VioletWillow · 19/08/2018 10:04

This really terrifies me. As a teen I was non gender conforming, unsure about my sexuality, certainly emotionally immature but intellectually bright and I was very dysphoric about my breasts. I struggled to fit into peer groups and would have definitely been a prime target. If someone had offered me chest binding or a mastectomy I would have jumped at the chance. I however have always been aware I am female, I just didn't know how to handle unwanted male attention and harassment, and didn't know how I fitted in the world. Thankfully the world wasn't as it is now and so my difficulty transitioning into adulthood wasn't shaped into me being trans. I think if I was 16 now and feeling as I did then, I would definitely have identified as a trans man. Without a doubt. It's an utter fucking travesty, indoctrinating and medicating children because they don't know how they fit yet.

FreshlyBakedRolls · 17/12/2018 18:11

With today's news about the £500,000 grant to Mermaids being under review, I think it is important to reflect on the disproportionate ratio of autistic children being affirmatively coached down the medicalised trans pathway.

NotTerfNorCis · 17/12/2018 18:15

When this does blow up in a few years, at least people here will have the comfort of knowing they were 'on the right side of history'.

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