Trans men aren't men according to gay men

[IJustHadToNameChange]

Gay Canadian Facebook Group are none too thrilled about dysphoric females.....

www.back2stonewall.com/2018/07/gay-male-facebook-group-refuses-to-accept-trans-men.html

Thanks for posting the link fwr, there’s no going back now! God it almost makes me feel sorry for tras, even trans women tras. No amount of forcing people to use your ( or should that be their) pronouns or fake boobs will compensate for good sex. And good sex is always consensual and uncoerced.

Quite a few comments on that thread expressing sympathy for lesbians and straight women. Along with absolutely rejection of the idea that anyone owes anyone else sex - and no apologising for that stance, or qualifying their words or anything. Just ‘no’ and you can see that they expect that to be enough. That’s the difference here isn’t it? Men’s boundaries are respected.

Also who knew about military chaps?

*www.pride.com/transgender/2015/10/23/outrageous-things-gay-cis-men-say-trans-men

Trans man describes the worst things to say to him*

This person does not pass as a man. I think men must have been being kind.
I echo the DL comments about transitioning limiting the dating pool, but having known some FTMs, I feel it's important to point out they are effectively 14 year old boys with mood swings. They're in permanent roid rage from having a huge dose of anabolic steroids regularly and they quickly decide the most interesting thing in the world is to discuss every new chest hair as it grows. Sorry if that sounds anti-trans, it's just an observation and I make it because that boost in confidence/testosterone does sometimes attract lesbians from within the social group. I've known FTMs who were very popular with lesbians, at least on a superficial level. I think the fan club eggs them on, but as is quite often the case, people get bored of their pet, who is then left feeling abandoned and bitter. There's an MTF I know in a similar situation, plenty of straight women fans to begin with, girly nights out and makeup tips, and now the realisation that the previous life (and wife, and kids) is gone forever this person is now pretty depressed.
I hate different personalities being medicalised, if the MTF I know was allowed to really "be himself" maybe he wouldn't have gone through such trauma?

Personally I have no judgment on adults choosing to reauthor their bodies to better fit an inner identity (as long as they don’t demand law changes to reflect their personal choices) - I’m extensively tattooed (a 20 plus year project) so I’ve shrunk my own dating pool accordingly - a shit ton of heterosexual men now think i’ve ‘Ruined myself’ and a slightly less numerous group would consider me only as a ‘fuck-a-freak’ novelty. This doesn’t bother me because a) I would never have been suited to those types in the first place and b) I’m on my third marriage so my remaining pool can’t be that small.

I do, however, think this topic needs to be part of informed consent culture for transpeople and the decreased statistical likelihood of finding a loving life partner should be thoroughly explored in therapy.

Whenever the subject of trans children and puberty blockers/cross sex hormones comes up my go-to-thought is always ‘but you can’t even get a little tattoo until you are 18’.

"When asked about the outrage by trans activists Bennett replied: “I have little care or concern of the opinions of trans activists. “You may quote me.”
Can we quote him too? That would be a game changer."

You may freely quote me. A little background on this... I was never asked about any "outrage" by the trans activists. The woman calling herself Timothy from the San Diego online publication informed me she had taken down my rejection of her application to Vintage Gay Toronto (Facebook) and that it would be used in her article and asked if I wished to changed my remark before she published. There was no mention of "outrage" (and even if there were I do not care). Their have been dozens of messages of support sent to me over the last couple of days and they are still pouring in. To date, I have had only 2 nasty comments sent to me via Facebook messenger. Out of the almost 800 members, only 6 have left the group over this. It would seem that the outrage is overblow and overhyped. They wish to garner support for a cause the majority of gays and lesbians do not support. The only deference is that I had the guts to speak up and resist it, and speak openly on what everyone else is terrified to speak in public. Gays and lesbians should be used to ruffling public feathers over these last decades to win civil rights. One of them is the right to free association. The only difference here is that I'm ruffling different feathers from a (trans) bird that has invaded our Gay & Lesbian nest for the last 20 years.

Hi David!

Couldn't agree more. And welcome. We'd all like to shake your hand and buy you a drink

Were you aware of the furore surrounding the "Get the L Out" protest at Pride this year?

@DavidBennett or or

Hi David!

How lovely to have you visit us. Keep stating the truth - we stand with you!

Welcome @DavidBennett .

Interesting that you say the majority of gays and lesbians do not support the TRA agenda. It's not the impression we're being given in the UK, I don't think.

Kudos to you for speaking out.

David - well done for standing up against the louder voices on this. I totally agree

Hello David!

I support your stance wholeheartedly and I’m glad you’ve had plenty of support and very little abuse over this.

Many of us (regardless of sexuality) feel we are unable to be as blunt as you are, or even to speak our minds - the level of abuse women are receiving for saying ‘no’ at the moment is quite shocking. It’s deeply worrying.

May I ask how you found mumsnet were talking about this? I’m rather tickled that we are now an international hotbed of radical feminism...

Keep calling a spade a spade, and doing it so eloquently as well.

We resist. Here. We resist

Hey David.

Well fucking done. .

A very interesting perspective and thank you for adding it, DavidBennett. How intriguing that there was almost no outrage directed at your organization for its stance, despite the attempts of 'Timothy' to whip up the ire of the TRA hordes.

It helps to confirm my suspicions that much of this TRA fury is in fact MRA fury that is hijacking the LGBT platform to direct hatred at women and silence us. How else can we explain the fact that TRA anger is almost never directed at the male gay community on behalf of transmen?

And that data lounge site is hilarious. I love this quote:

"They are not males. They are females replicating socially accepted male identity constructs."

That is exactly how I would describe transwomen too. There is no genuine female-ness there. It is about taking tired social constructs and replicating, and therefore reinforcing, them. It's taking gender backwards into the past instead of forwards into a future where we dismantle social constructs and move away from defined gender roles.

It would seem that the outrage is overblow and overhyped. They wish to garner support for a cause the majority of gays and lesbians do not support. The only deference is that I had the guts to speak up and resist it, and speak openly on what everyone else is terrified to speak in public.

David, I applaud your stance on this.

I’m interested to know if you have a sense of how difficult it is for women, especially lesbians, to speak on this issue?

Bluntly, a bunch of blokes can safely rebuff a few partially remodelled females, because you don’t have it the back of your minds from childhood that, at a group level, female people pose a physical/sexual threat (because for the most part, they don’t). And as a male person, you are allowed an opinion and to express it without tempering it into non-existence to protect others’ feelz, or being censured for failing to do so.

I do, however, think this topic needs to be part of informed consent culture for transpeople and the decreased statistical likelihood of finding a loving life partner should be thoroughly explored in therapy.

Agreed, Betty.
Nice of David to pop in, and fair play to him

It would seem that the outrage is overblow and overhyped. They wish to garner support for a cause the majority of gays and lesbians do not support.

I would agree with this, going off the people I know anyway. I know a lot of gay men and lesbians, and not one of them agrees with he ridiculous nonsense that comes from the mouths of transactivists. Unfortunately though, every single one of my lesbian friends has had a 'transwoman' try it on with them, and a few have been labelled transphobic for saying no to male people, even though they are bloody lesbian, which automatically exclude male people because..lesbian.

The hell on about the lesbians at pride was so overblown it was ridiculous. I expect that the people kicking off were not actually lesbians/gay people on the whole and instead were 'transgender' or 'queer'. Actually thats something else my friends hate, how so many young people call themselves queer, and try to stick the label on others too. My mates have been abused with that term for years and years, and now they are expected to embrace it? Nah.

Hi David!

Thanks for stopping by.

I wholeheartedly support your assertion of the right to free association and to affirm your sexuality.

And I really like the short, sharp, blunt way you did it.

It is sadly hilarious to me what some trans activists are attempting to do to homosexuals. Make them not so.

Convince them they can like or be attracted to the opposite sex. And yet unlike some (maybe some religious or traditional people who seek to convert gay people, these activists want to convince the gay people they are still gay!

One of the articles I read stated

"I have found that the leather/BDSM community, the bear community, and the HIV-positive community (often overlapping) have been much more open to transgender men who have sex with men."

That sounds like quite a dangerous community to attract probably young, almost certainly vulnerable, females to. And I don't even know what the bear community is!

I think trans people are being taken advantage of, sexualized, fetishized and manipulated all for acceptance.

Ironic if one day feminists will end up being recognised as those actually looking out for vulnerable trans people!

Bears are large and/or hairy gay men.

A "honey bear" is blond.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=M0AbrbD00pg

(Bears - John Waters style)

@Bowlofbabelfish Have skim read all links, but obviously missed something. Who knew what about military chaps?

The thread on datalounge - many of the comments are about rather interesting experiences with members (pun intended) of the US military

I thought this comment was good on the "Drop the T" thread on Datalounge (in response to someone saying the petition was nasty):

"We realized that we should have a parallel movement, but also needed to be dug into the L.G.B.T. movement,” said Mara Keisling, the executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality. “The folks I work most closely with are all very nice, sweet people, but we had to be such hard asses. At a certain point, we said, ‘No more moving gay people ahead without trans people.’ ”

What do you have to say about this? Do you find it perfectly acceptable for the T to exist as a part of LGBT and also as a distinct group that prioritizes its own interests? Do you not see just how ridiculous it is to demand the exact opposite from gay people? Do you not see just how homophobic (yes) it is to deny gay people our right as an oppressed class to center and fight our oppression as an individual group?

And David, great to hear from you. Cheers. Here's to pushing back