Diva editor, responds to 'lesbian rights alliance' article in the times.

[garam]

Another strongly worded restating of support for trans rights....

"A Times article, published today, announces “lesbian fury at Stonewall over ‘trans agenda’”, as if the 135 signatories of an open letter speak for every lesbian in the world.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Given DIVA’s unequivocal stance on trans issues, I’m sure it goes without saying, but for anyone not quite sure: those 135 signatories do not speak for us, or for the majority of cisgender lesbians.

The letter, from an organisation calling themselves the Lesbian Rights Alliance, accuses Stonewall of erasing lesbians and says: “Stonewall has rarely represented our interests. Now in your single-minded policy to promote the trans political and ideological agenda you not only fail to represent us but you actually promote lesbian invisibility – and lesbian erasure.”

I do agree that lesbians are underrepresented in the LGBT community. But it's worse for bisexual people, and even more so for trans people who are also lesbian or bisexual. That's why it's so important that a magazine like DIVA exists, and that an organisation like Stonewall is women-led and promotes bi and trans inclusion. It's the likes of DIVA and Stonewall who are making us more visible.

In fact, I'd go further. It is not Stonewall – or any other LGBT organisation – erasing lesbian identities, but these so-called feminists who, by peddling hateful and transphobic rhetoric, make people like me not want to use the word lesbian to describe myself because I don’t want to be associated with their views. What a sad state of affairs.

The letter continues: “We urge you to stop claiming to represent us and leave the L out.”

Take your own advice, LRA, and stop claiming to represent lesbians. You do not speak for me, for DIVA, or for the majority of our community.

As I’ve said before, and I’ll say again, trans women do not erase lesbians. I believe we are enriched by trans friends and lovers, parents, children, colleagues and siblings.

Groups like the LRA would have you believe that it’s “them versus us”. It’s not. They are us. We’re one and the same, and we can’t let divisive, hateful and misguided people drive a wedge between us.

DIVA publisher Linda Riley agrees with me. She says: “It seems ironic to me to complain about a lack of lesbian visibility while, at the same time, asking the L to be removed from LGBT.

“We are stronger as a community and 135 lesbians should not be able to decide what a whole community should believe.”"

Lesbians who sleep with people who have a penis aren't the ones being harassed, so quit it with the DARVO.

The ones who say 'no' are being called transphobic.

But you don't get to tell lesbians who support trans women and have a trans lesbian partner, your opinion of their sexuality is more valid than their own.

I can point out their incorrect use of words.

'Trans lesbian' is a very offensive phrase by the way.

In 99% of society this is common sense, on here it seems people don't like to be told not to harass lesbians who disagree with them.

It would be interesting to know what the majority of society would really think if presented with unbiased reporting. And the second part of that sentence seems decidedly arse about face.

In fact I am really done with people putting the word 'trans' in front of a category to which they do not belong as a way of claiming to be part of it.

Enough with enabling appropriation.

upstartcow

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In 99% of society this is common sense, on here it seems people don't like to be told not to harass lesbians who disagree with them.

And yet you think we are existing in an echo chamber. I don’t know a single person who thinks a man identifying as a woman can be a lesbian. Some might think they can if they have SRS, the majority have zero idea of original genital retention rate.

I'm transroyal, so please respect my identity and bow or curtsey when I enter the room otherwise you will be demonstrating transphobia - which is a hate crime.

Garam, why are you so determined to support a culture which had led to a transwoman threatening to rape a 15 year old girl just because she is lesbian?

Lesbians aren't transphobic for pointing out that that we are female homosexuals, and that transwomen can't be lesbians.

You are incredibly homophobic though.

Lesbians who sleep with people with a penis are bisexual (or possibly heterosexual, thinking about the trans widows who find themselves in what some claim to be a lesbian relationship because their male partner has decided to transition)

It really is as simple as that

Lesbians aren't transphobic for pointing out that that we are female homosexuals, and that transwomen can't be lesbians.

I never said you were, nor did I ever say a lesbian who chooses not to date a trans woman is transphobic either, so I'm not sure what your on about.

I said nobody has the right to re-define a lesbians sexual identity because you disagree with it.

In a way though. Men who only have sex/relationships with men are transheterosexuals.

Here is a question.
Say for instance my straight sister’s husband decides to “identify” as a transwoman. And he “identifies” as a lesbian. If she stays with him but refuses to identify as lesbian because she is still having sex with her penis wielding husband and therefore to her mind straight, is she a transphobe?

A list of links to bisexual and heterosexual women, and even a man thrown in there at the end. What of it?

I said nobody has the right to re-define a lesbians sexual identity because you disagree with it.

But what if they transagree with it?

Argh - my last post was supposed to say "AKA not lesbians at all"

As someone who's had sex with both people with vulvas and people with penises let me just say that these are very different experiences and most would not find them hard to distinguish between even if the person with a penis also had breasts.

"Lesbian sex" does not involve penises in any way. I really wish my bisexual sisters could learn to be OK with IDing as bi instead of trying to shoehorn themselves into the definition of "lesbian".

Here is a question.
Say for instance my straight sister’s husband decides to “identify” as a transwoman. And he “identifies” as a lesbian. If she stays with him but refuses to identify as lesbian because she is still having sex with her penis wielding husband and therefore to her mind straight, is she a transphobe?

Nope, and she is whatever sexuality she defines herself, and neither myself nor you have any input on that.

So (since this was a scenario I actually read about), two people with penises in a parked car, giving each other blow jobs. Is that lesbian sex if both parties say it is?

Nope, and she is whatever sexuality she defines herself, and neither myself nor you have any input on that.

But I didn’t identify into my sexuality. I was born this way. To suggest you can identify into a sexuality is offensive and homophobic.

Also, I know someone in that exact situation above (not my sister) who has been dragged across social media as a transphobe (my hundreds of people) to the point she deleted all of her accounts.

she is whatever sexuality she defines herself, and neither myself nor you have any input on that.

Exactly, so she can identify as a gay man.

Transwords don't have to mean anything. It's so freeing.

So (since this was a scenario I actually read about), two people with penises in a parked car, giving each other blow jobs. Is that lesbian sex if both parties say it is?

How flat-out weird to be obsessed by this stuff.
I mean, who even thinks like this, what kind of person arrives at this kind of thought exercise, does this stuff keep you awake at night?

For a forum thats generally puritanical, some people seem to have a lot of sexual hang-ups.

Someone saying that they are something doesn't automatically make them that thing, particularly if they act in a way which is inconsistent with the fundamentals of the thing that they say that they are

"I'm a vegetarian apart from bacon" = "I'm not a vegetarian"

"I'm a Catholic but I don't believe in God" = "I'm not a Catholic"

"I'm a fashionista but I don't really care much for clothes and make up" = "I'm not a fashionista"

"I'm a musician, even though I don't play an instrument or sing and I have terrible rhythm and am tone-deaf" = "I'm not a musician"

"I'm a lesbian but I happily involve a penis in my sexual activities" = "I'm not a lesbian"

two people with penises in a parked car, giving each other blow jobs. Is that lesbian sex if both parties say it is?

Of course it is. Transcunnilingus - all the rage these days.

Nobody here would ever have thought of such a thing by themselves, I'm sure, but unfortunately TRAs do insist on posting about it all over the internet.

(Cute attempt at a reversal btw but not very well executed, I give it 2/10.)