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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Diva editor, responds to 'lesbian rights alliance' article in the times.

361 replies

garam · 17/07/2018 23:29

Another strongly worded restating of support for trans rights....

"A Times article, published today, announces “lesbian fury at Stonewall over ‘trans agenda’”, as if the 135 signatories of an open letter speak for every lesbian in the world.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Given DIVA’s unequivocal stance on trans issues, I’m sure it goes without saying, but for anyone not quite sure: those 135 signatories do not speak for us, or for the majority of cisgender lesbians.

The letter, from an organisation calling themselves the Lesbian Rights Alliance, accuses Stonewall of erasing lesbians and says: “Stonewall has rarely represented our interests. Now in your single-minded policy to promote the trans political and ideological agenda you not only fail to represent us but you actually promote lesbian invisibility – and lesbian erasure.”

I do agree that lesbians are underrepresented in the LGBT community. But it's worse for bisexual people, and even more so for trans people who are also lesbian or bisexual. That's why it's so important that a magazine like DIVA exists, and that an organisation like Stonewall is women-led and promotes bi and trans inclusion. It's the likes of DIVA and Stonewall who are making us more visible.

In fact, I'd go further. It is not Stonewall – or any other LGBT organisation – erasing lesbian identities, but these so-called feminists who, by peddling hateful and transphobic rhetoric, make people like me not want to use the word lesbian to describe myself because I don’t want to be associated with their views. What a sad state of affairs.

The letter continues: “We urge you to stop claiming to represent us and leave the L out.”

Take your own advice, LRA, and stop claiming to represent lesbians. You do not speak for me, for DIVA, or for the majority of our community.

As I’ve said before, and I’ll say again, trans women do not erase lesbians. I believe we are enriched by trans friends and lovers, parents, children, colleagues and siblings.

Groups like the LRA would have you believe that it’s “them versus us”. It’s not. They are us. We’re one and the same, and we can’t let divisive, hateful and misguided people drive a wedge between us.

DIVA publisher Linda Riley agrees with me. She says: “It seems ironic to me to complain about a lack of lesbian visibility while, at the same time, asking the L to be removed from LGBT.

“We are stronger as a community and 135 lesbians should not be able to decide what a whole community should believe.”"

OP posts:
OlennasWimple · 18/07/2018 20:00

For a forum thats generally puritanical

Ah, I see where you've gone wrong OP.

AngryAttackKittens · 18/07/2018 20:01

"I'm a musician, even though I don't play an instrument or sing and I have terrible rhythm and am tone-deaf" = "I'm not a musician"

Lots of those about, sadly. Seem to have replaced transpoets as the go-to for "would like to be creative but sadly is not".

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 18/07/2018 20:01

How flat-out weird to be obsessed by this stuff.
I mean, who even thinks like this, what kind of person arrives at this kind of thought exercise, does this stuff keep you awake at night?

Err yeah. So obsessed with genitals huh?

Actually we're all being transprudes and you are being transprurient garam

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 18/07/2018 20:08

Puritanical?! Confused

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 18/07/2018 20:11

Transpuritanical - or transpermissive - can't remember when words don't actually mean something. ..

StepBackNow · 18/07/2018 20:14

Just when you think it couldn't get even more stupid. Here we are. Madness.

AngryAttackKittens · 18/07/2018 20:17

Maybe garam's account isn't old enough to be able to comment on sex threads?

AngryAttackKittens · 18/07/2018 20:18

(I suspect in this case they really wanted to say "yes those are lesbians if that's how they identify" but had a pause for thought and realized how barmy that would look, thus the attempt at deflection.)

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 18/07/2018 20:20

Come on garam

2 dick 69 = lesbian sex

Yes or no?

LangCleg · 18/07/2018 20:22

2 dick 69 = lesbian sex

Yes or no?

STOP MAKING ME LAUGH!

FloralBunting · 18/07/2018 20:22

All points go to AAK at this juncture.Grin

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 18/07/2018 20:23

Yy AAK, that is totally what is happening...

AngryAttackKittens · 18/07/2018 20:25

Wouldn't be the first time a bloke had accused a woman who wanted to wait of being puritanical...

LangCleg · 18/07/2018 20:28

I was actually busy getting stats from a study carried out by a Follower of Gender - because I know garam can be picky about sourcing - and trying to work out how many lesbians would consider sex involving penis on account of identity.

But it's so full of Humpty Dumpty gobbledegook, I gave up.

I thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink it's 23%. But who knows, when words can mean anything? I think it's better just to laugh at 69ers.

static1.squarespace.com/static/527403c4e4b02d3f058d2f18/t/5b1141a670a6ad1221be99ff/1527857575352/Transgender+Exclusion

TransplantsArePlants · 18/07/2018 20:29

What is it about the TRAs on here? They haven't got the your/you're distinction AT ALL.

LangCleg · 18/07/2018 20:31

Unsure how much multiplying goes on with 69ers. But for what it's worth.

Diva editor, responds to 'lesbian rights alliance' article in the times.
Bowlofbabelfish · 18/07/2018 20:33

For a forum thats generally puritanical

Genuine question: is that your impression of MN?

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 18/07/2018 20:33
Grin
Iseveryusernamealreadytaken · 18/07/2018 20:34

I posted this in another thread but it's worth bearing in mind when reading anything from the supposedly lesbian media:

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-didnt-you-say-something-sooneryoure-asking_us_59d560dee4b085c51090ad64?

The only actually lesbian media that I am aware of is afterellen.com. (That started out as a lesbian website, was taken over by - mainly straight - 'queer' women but is now back in lesbian hands.)

TransplantsArePlants · 18/07/2018 20:35

For a forum thats generally puritanical, some people seem to have a lot of sexual hang-ups

Do you know what puritanical or hang-ups mean?

They are near-synonyms

It's like me saying: 'for a donkey, you do seem to bray a lot'

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 18/07/2018 20:38
Grin
WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 18/07/2018 20:39

Transatonyms

thebewilderness · 18/07/2018 20:39

In fact I am really done with people putting the word 'trans' in front of a category to which they do not belong as a way of claiming to be part of it.

...she is whatever sexuality she defines herself, and neither myself nor you have any input on that.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

At some point the majority of the population will recognize that they are being subjected to authoritarian obedience training as described in classic literature.
The sooner the better.

AngryAttackKittens · 18/07/2018 20:40

I guess all the mothers here got pregnant via immaculate conception too?

FloralBunting · 18/07/2018 20:47

I don't know what's more amusing; calling Mumsnet, the online go to for a weekend bumsex thread, puritanical, or suggesting that two be-penised people giving each other head might be reasonably termed lesbian sex by virtue of the self identification of the participants.