FWR more unpleasant than ever

[Snappity]

The Talk Guidelines have done little to improve things. The majority of threads are about trans matters and very few, if any, positive. Misgendering is increasingly rife. "They" for a trans woman is as bad as "he".

Even the sex of trans women with female birth certificates is not respected.

There is post after post that trans women are not women and that sex is biological and cannot be changed (totally ignoring that many aspects of sex can be changed).

Then increasingly material from elsewhere which is anti-trans is being linked.

While individual comments are fair enough, the sheer volume means that FWR is a thoroughly unpleasant place for the majority of trans people and those of us who have trans family members.

Intersex women are also repeatedly disrespected with frequent posts that women are XX or are those with female reproductive capacity. It is hugely offensive.

I am going to be here less. The harassment - and I think that is what it is - has driven me away. It is a shame because trans and intersex feminists - indeed trans inclusive feminists - should be as welcome here as any other feminists. If MumsNet believes in debate that means ensuring that one side isn't shouted down - and the sheer volume of people saying that trans women are not women and belong in male spaces (because anyone "male" is a risk to women) is shouting down the other side of the debate.

FWR needs to regain a balance.

"where it is widely acknowledged some of the worst anti-trans groups mobilise and arrange attacks on trans women.*
If this is widely acknowledged it will be easy for someone to provide some evidence. Become
otherwise it looks a bit libellous......

Rowantrees on phone so cannot copy and paste, but to your point about consideration must be given to context and background of the writers - this is such an important point in any piece of writing, text or imagery, as well as who is reading it and what policy/law/social influence it may have.

Snappity I have not read past page four of this yet, but if my partner was telling me what to read or not read because of their emotional state, I would think they were controlling. I had some heated debates with xH about transgender issues some years back but even though he was definitely a case study in control freakery, he never told me not to read things. He might have disrupted my reading time and peace to read in other ways, but he did not ever police it. Leave or stay on MN because of what YOU want to do, not someone else. Make up your own views and opinions. Because even if we don’t agree on self-ID, I will defend utterly your right to autonomy in thoughts and reading and actions and your partner should respect this too.

Garam as snappity doesn't seem to want to answer can you say if you think a pre op transwoman should reveal they are pre op before it becomes obvious if they are dating a straight man?

Before a trans woman sleeps with a partner she commits a criminal offence if she does not reveal her trans history. That applies to sleeping with lesbians too, not just straight men.

Why is it a crime Snappity, if transwomen are literally women?

When someone transitions and takes hormones the baseline moves from male to female (or vice versa) over the course of about 5 years. Kidneys change sex.

Do people still say “roflcopter”?

Ah by "arrange attacks" you must mean, "publicise public meetings where women can assemble peaceably to discuss and disagree with impending legislation as is their legal right in this democracy."

Meetings where said women were literally, violently attacked by, and threatened with bombs by, and barred entry by radical transactivists.

For thinking undesirable thoughts and saying them out loud.

I expect the thread balance will change after the consultation is complete and action is implemented.

Until then, this is the most immediate women’s rights issue in the UK.

Perhaps you will consider coming back when things have calmed down, say around January time, Snappity?

I don’t say ‘roflcopter’ I’m extremely angry and sad that that ridiculous view caused the death of a person and it is still being stated as fact by people purporting to care about transpeople as a way of smearing other people for apparently not caring about transpeople.

ADastardlyThing

I treat people as people I don't constantly think about how the sexual practices manifest.
How people date or choose address certain issues from their past is up to the people involved and no-one else.

There is no 'one' trans opinion on this, all trans people disagree on many things, like 'non-trans(sigh)' people do.

We must talk about it while it is still legal. If self ID is implemented it will be illegal.

So we are expected to read, on the women's right's board, how males can change into females and as such are entitled to share spaces with us when we are naked or vulnerable, take our positions and beat us in our sports and we are supposed to be pleasant about it?

Beggars belief. Honestly.

Snappily, you are wrong. Exemptions are allowed in certain circumstances. I suggest you read the Equality Act.

No. The Equality Act restricts the use of complaints based on specific protected characteristics in certain circumstances. It is very different.

"the hate needs to be challenged."

Where is this hate?

Please c/p specific quotes from this thread.

The protected characteristic here being sex, which doesn't change.

I am going to be here less

Have a to munch on on your way out, OP.

The protected characteristic here being sex, which doesn't change.

Trans women by virtue of the equality act are also protected under sex as women.

Are you saying the equality act that states trans women are considered female for the purposes of the act, are still under the protected characteristic men??

Everyone is protected by the characteristic 'sex', trans women are protected as female, and trans men are men.

The absolute mystifying interpretations of the equality act are almost a joy to behold.

Why is it a crime Snappity, if transwomen are literally women?

To protect male egos since the trans woman will definitely be infertile and a man might feel inadequate if he didn't realise why he could not get her pregnant?

There are exemptions in the GRA itself Snappity.

I wonder how MNHQ feel about having their attempts to foster civilised debate with the new guidelines chucked back in their faces with some pretty fruity accusations that they are fostering incitement to violence?

I mean, to many people, it was always obvious that nothing bar complete capitulation, MNHQ deleting the board and offering themselves up for a horsewhipping through the streets would ever be enough...but there you go. Live and learn.

Sorry about that, MNHQ. A read round the Duluth wheel might set things in context, though. Full marks for trying not to cave.

OP, I mean this without harm, but do you ever just think about giving yourself a day off? It must really be so exhausting being so infinitely offended. You must wake up sometimes and just think oh fuck it, who cares if someone calls me he/she/they. I am Snappity and am sure of myself and secure in myself so who hives a flying toss. Or do you just not?

There are exemptions in the GRA itself Snappity.

Sigh. There are no exceptions to the sex status of someone with a GRC.

Evidence for forming groups to physically attack people please.

"Women - be nice!"

Snappity are these your words or your partners? You think the only issue is 'male egos'? What about consent??