Historically Claiming People as Trans

[UglyCathKidstonBag]

Has anyone got any examples of this?
I’ve been reading a bit into Stonewall and how it was set up and one group seem to claim Sylvia Rivera as trans whilst others dispute this.

And Dante Tex Gill (who Scarlett J was set to play) is now being called trans which many people all dispute.

A woman I went to university with (who to be fair I only spoke to a few times) was, amongst the people who knew and lived with, always a lesbian. She was butch and used the unisex shortening of her name and always referred to herself as a woman.
Sadly she died about 18 months ago. Recently people outside of her social circle, at a uni event, starting calling her a “trans man” and have even changed her Wikipedia page to reflect their view point.

Are there further examples?

Cath that's appalling that these people are doing that to your friend's history and causing so much upset - I hope her family manage to sort it out. It's a terrible violation of someone's life.

On the more general theme, I believe that somewhere In the region of 400 women fought in the American civil war disguised as men. One especially famous woman was Jenny Hodgers who continued to use her male persona after the war. Probably because she therefore was able to collect her pension and vote. I've no idea if these women have been claimed (I lack the stomach to look on Wikipedia!). I'm sure someone has done it though!

“She became famous as one of a number of women soldiers who served as men during the Civil War, although the consistent and long-term commitment to the male identity has prompted some contemporary scholars to suggest that Cashier was a trans man.”

FFS

Bob from Blackadder LOL as the youth say
here's a thought that may encourage those of us still living in the real world...
I see an increasing trend to practical, real world, hands-on skills and experiences
eg- people rediscovering knitting, gardening, generally home made local small scale stuff
I think this is a reaction to feeling disastisfied with virtual/digital experience
Surely people who are engaged, even occassionally, with the material world in this way will never buy the 'sex is a socail construct' line? I mean, I keep hens, they categorically do not reproduce without a male present, yet they are for sure female as they lay eggs. We have sometimes had hens that crowed....doesn't make them cockerels.

Has anyone come across the phenomenon of Bacha Posh? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_posh
It's an Afghani/Pakistani tradition of raising a girl as a boy when there's no boy in the family.

Ukmina Minoori's book about her experience - and refusal to go back to "a girl's life" even though she is absolutely a woman in all other respects and says so very clearly - is really interesting.

www.amazon.co.uk/Am-Bacha-Posh-Living-Afghanistan-ebook/dp/B00NS42CCE/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=I+am+a+Bacha+posh&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1531761083&sr=8-1

Sorry, I haven't figured out how to do links yet. I read the book recently and thought it had an interesting, current perspective on women dressing and being socialised as men without changing the biological aspects.

Of course the achievements we make that we are allowed to make >> usually around home / children / kindness (charity) - are not deemed as as achiements in a patriarchal society and so these are not noted either

This!
Raising children is one of the most important jobs in the world, but doesn't count. Archeologists and Anthropologists often only study what men did. Men do art and women do crafts, the only knitter I have ever heard of outside of the home is a man.

And for the realm of things that make men famous, women slide out of history. I researched women's role in Ireland's War of Independence and we were fifty percent, between leaders and foot soldiers, but by the time my dd was being taught Irish history, of the women who had taken part, only Constance Markievicz was left.

Poor Jennie! Predictable though... After all, why wouldn't a woman want to resume great big crinolines and corsets and have no money or respect?

It's just a new iteration of a very old form of sexism. It was routinely assumed that female authors with famous spouses or fathers must have, at best, been helped if not simply put a name to the man's work (May Shelley, Maria Edgeworth etc). It's satirized in cold comfort farm when Mr Meyerburg claims Bramwell wrote all the Bronte novels. Of course now he'd just argue they were really men. Especially Emily.

*Branwell (thick fingers!)

She didn’t write it.

(But if it’s clear she did the deed. . .)

She wrote it, but she shouldn’t have. (It’s political, sexual, masculine, feminist.)
She wrote it, but look what she wrote about. (The bedroom, the kitchen, her family. Other women!)
She wrote it, but she wrote only one of it. (“Jane Eyre. Poor dear, that’s all she ever. . .”)
She wrote it, but she isn’t really an artist, and it isn’t really art. (It’s a thriller, a romance, a children’s book. It’s sci fi!)
She wrote it, but she had help. (Robert Browning. Branwell Bronte. Her own “masculine side.”)
She wrote it, but she’s an anomaly. (Woolf. With Leonard’s help....)
She wrote it BUT. . . 

Joanna Russ in a short, useful book from 1983, How to Suppress Women’s Writing

What an effective way to write women out of history altogether.

It is Jax. As thebewilderness just illustrated, a token few women slip through in HIStory, generally maligned in some way.

In the earlier days of the internet, the MRAs used to claim "but men invented EVERYTHING". No they didn't, but they did steal the ideas of many women and claim them for their own (look up Monopoly/Lizzie Magie). Tip of the male-stealing iceberg.

Since the internet, women have been uncovering this STOLEN HERstory, and listing like mad.

It was erasure, what women did then was covered up. Now they 'trans' the remaining few. Just a different type of erasure. Which now reads: "Men invented (nearly) everything, and the remainder, by 'transmen'. Oh, and women had babies and looked pretty."

Also, what many young women/feminists do not realise, is that women's rights are NOT linear progression, but a series of gains/setbacks/gains/going back to the bloody start again. Example, some women did have the vote in the US early on. Those rights were taken away, and it took something like 90 years (or more?) to get them back again. In the middle ages, probably earlier, women could own property, by Victorian times, nope, gone again. Now they can again.

This latest 'trans darling' is just the latest fad to erase us and many of our rights - again. That is why we are fighting so hard against it.

FFS, we still have not even achieved parity with the male wage, even though, well, illegal. Still happens that we 'just happen' to earn less on average, because 'reasons'. Still happens that we 'just happen' to do more of the housework/childcare, even though, in many cases, working the same hours outside the home.

Until we get rid of patriarchy all together, we will continue to fight all these 'smaller' battles separately, some gains, some losses, no overall wins, and patriarchy keeps coming up with new bullshit. Like "feels like a woman inside".

Join me, in overturning male domination.

"No they didn't, but they did steal the ideas of many women and claim them for their own (look up Monopoly/Lizzie Magie). Tip of the male-stealing iceberg."
DNA is a particular favourite of mine.

Also, what many young women/feminists do not realise, is that women's rights are NOT linear progression, but a series of gains/setbacks/gains/going back to the bloody start again. .... In the middle ages, probably earlier, women could own property, by Victorian times, nope, gone again. Now they can again.

I agree that is something that isn't understood enough.

There was a series of history program ages ago that included Caroline Norton.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Norton
In 1836, Caroline left her husband. Caroline managed to subsist on her earnings as an author, but Norton claimed these as his own, arguing successfully in court that, as her husband, Caroline's earnings were legally his.Paid nothing by her husband, her earnings confiscated, Caroline used the law to her own advantage.Running up bills in her husband's name, Caroline told the creditors when they came to collect, that if they wished to be paid, they could sue her husband.

That was first time I realised how bad it was for Victorian women - and I don't still understand how it went from property owning medieval women to virtual slavery.

I saw documentary about Charles Dickins which included the treatment of his wife she never saw her children again after the divorce.

www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160519-the-forgotten-wife-of-charles-dickens

^^ this even covers the claim that Catherine Dickens book was written by her husband.

Another of Catherine’s achievements? Publishing a book. When I researched it, I was infuriated to discover how many people – even respected academics – have claimed that it was written by Charles.

This view is intensely patronising, implying as it does that Catherine couldn’t possibly have had the intelligence to write a book. But it is also extraordinary to claim that Charles would have willingly added to his already punishing writing schedule only to publish a book under a female pseudonym – at a time when most female authors were being forced to write under masculine pen names in order to be published.

and I don't still understand how it went from property owning medieval women to virtual slavery.

The Normans... (simple version)

Henrietta Leyser has written a great book called ‘Medieval Women; A social history of women in England 450-1500’

Would recommend!

The Normans took to Christianity like ex smokers take to enforcing the smoking ban IMO... I speculate that is a result of the mix of Norse Viking conversion to existing Frankish Christianity and the politics of that...

Many Lesbians over the last nearly 30 years have been arguing with Transmen over Billy Tipton (just one of many examples ) you make your mind up

www.nytimes.com/1998/06/02/arts/one-false-note-musician-s-life-billy-tipton-remembered-with-love-even-those-who.html

Thanks Offred - I'll add it to my reading list.

Thanks Offred - I'll add it to my reading list.

Ditto. Ordered it just now.

Ireland also had powerful women until Colonialisation was completed in the seventeenth century. Then, apart from anything else, "illegitimate children" suddenly became a thing of shame and had to be put in that horrible wheel through the wall in the orphanages, so as to save the mother's face.