Historically Claiming People as Trans

[UglyCathKidstonBag]

Has anyone got any examples of this?
I’ve been reading a bit into Stonewall and how it was set up and one group seem to claim Sylvia Rivera as trans whilst others dispute this.

And Dante Tex Gill (who Scarlett J was set to play) is now being called trans which many people all dispute.

A woman I went to university with (who to be fair I only spoke to a few times) was, amongst the people who knew and lived with, always a lesbian. She was butch and used the unisex shortening of her name and always referred to herself as a woman.
Sadly she died about 18 months ago. Recently people outside of her social circle, at a uni event, starting calling her a “trans man” and have even changed her Wikipedia page to reflect their view point.

Are there further examples?

So perhaps somebody needs to cond up with a snappy name for it. Then people can start using it and it can enter the vernacular like all the other new words we have had to learn and accommodate.
Maybe false retro claiming -FRC. Not very snappy though. Others are better at this than I am.

There's a new film coming out where Marsha P. Johnson will be portrayed as a transwoman not a gay drag queen.

If you Google him, there are still 'older' references (including the New York Times obituary) which refer to him as a gay drag queen.

Newer entries (from about mid 2016) refer to him as "transgender".

When all you have is a hammer, all else is a nail.

When 'transgender' is your only point of reference, then all who don't conform to gender stereotypes must be transgender.

Not gay. Not mould breaking. Not bad ass. All must be transgender.

I thought Marsha gave an interview where they said they were a drag queen, and a gay man.

The transing of historical GNC women especially lesbians is vile. The gender role for women and girls has been (and still is) outrageously narrow, the idea that anyone who wanted to exist outside that narrow box was a man is extremely misogynistic, the fact that some women adopted a male persona to do things they were otherwise barred from is a grotesque misdirection.

Previously it was
That it was bad that women who wanted to do certain things had to pretend to be male, this show misogyny

New spin is that
These people were actually men, as only men want to dress that way and do those things. The stories demonstrate transphobia that these people could not be "out" as trans. There is no sexism / misogyny as by definition, women do not want to dress that way / do those things, so that aspect can be disregarded and forgotten. The real story in all of this is the trans story. There is no female story - these were all men.

There is ZERO consideration given to the possibility that these people might have "really" been women...

Because they can't be because look short hair and a suit.

And women have no desire to get involved in anything dangerous, step outside their role.

And if a person has short hair and wears a suit and loves a woman then they must have "really" been a man.

Yep no misogyny / homophobia to see here at all, no sirree bob.

There are many parallels with what I read of the puberty blockers - oh dear those poor children

There was a movie made about a famous castrati - can't remember what it was called though. On youtube there is a clip from the last remaining castrati although he was old and past his best in terms of singing when it was made. The whole idea was small vocal chords and a man's chest capacity which produced an irreproducible sound. There are songs written for castrati that can no longer be sung how they were originally intended.

Yes, Marsha did say he was a gay man and a drag queen. There have been rebukes to that effect in the attempts to edited his wiki... then TRAs claiming this is transphobic...

It’s actually fundamentally important re the history of the gay civil rights movement (and the origins of drag) that he was a gay man and a drag queen and this is why the TRAs want him, and all other GNC in any way people, no matter if their GNC was activism against gender...

James Barry/Margaret Bulkley is something of a heroine of mine. I really recommend the most recent biography James Barry: A Woman Ahead of Her Time in which the authors are very clear that they believe she dressed as a man in order to train as a doctor and thought the shame of being exposed as a woman and ruining her army career was too much to risk.

She's due to be played by Rachel Weisz in a movie and there are lots of trans folk on Twitter claiming that it's shameful erosion of 'their' history. Some idiot Evening Standard columnist mentioned it this week. It makes me so angry. They are eroding women's history by failing to recognise how sometimes dressing as a man was the only way to, say, train as a doctor in the early 19th century.

I’ve seen Joan of Arc and Queen Hetshepsat transed as well as James Barry.

Have they claimed Mulan yet? Disney are woker than anyone realised.

Periodically throughout history men make an concerted effort to erase women from the written record.
We are witnessing one of those times now.
Not quite the same as the ongoing dismissal by self serving archaeologists and religious leaders who repeat their zombie lies to support the man made myths.

“We find more divergence from man/woman within many indigenous cultures before the crusades and colonialism asserted that to diverge from man/woman is to stray from god.”

Well, there is some speculative thinking to that effect..........

8iiu

But indigenous peoples have been appropriated to support lots of things that having no written records means cannot be substantiated.

YetAnotherSpartacus
There was a movie made about a famous castrati - can't remember what it was called though.

Farinelli

It appears that the more restrictive the gender roles were of a hierarchical society the more likely they were to make formal legalistic provisions for males of the upper class to deviate from those restrictions.

The whole idea was small vocal chords and a man's chest capacity which produced an irreproducible sound. There are songs written for castrati that can no longer be sung how they were originally intended.

Isn't it just the same vocal range as a soprano though? Was the castrati phase just another of men trying to prove themselves better than women? To usurp women?

The Mormons and their free ancestry search websites the unsuspecting users do not realize are being used to posthumously baptize the deceased family members.

But harmless and stupid, nonetheless. Imaginary point scoring in the sky? Seems a rather silly and futile exercise in religious numbers gathering...

Anyone know if they have claimed all the serial killers who cross dressed? I think there has been some blaming of transphobia for violent crimes committed by present day transwomen hasn’t there but cross dressing often features in the background of serial killers.

It works the other way around, Offred.
Whenever a transgender person commits a crime they are forcibly detransitioned because the no true Scotsman logical fallacy is deeply embedded in Genderism.

Oh yes! I know that happens ‘ah but x person is not really trans’ but I have definitely seen claims ‘x person only did it because they had to suppress their real gender identity’ too...

Just wondering if all the historical cross dressing serial killers were ‘not really trans’.

If so, how do we tell?

Interestingly there seems to be a number of serial killers who were also dressed as girls by their mothers when they were young and who have spoken about it to psych services who have concluded that the feeling of humiliation they experienced during that time had a relationship with developing hatred of women that was a part of their crimes as adults.

Neat. That gives two solutions:

1. Those poor transwomen who were turned into serial killers by their mothers.
2. Those serial killers are bad. But even worse, worse than what they did, is TERFs trying to pin this on transwomen.

I don't know. They seem all over the shop with the claiming/disavowing of the crims.

Remember Laverne Cox coming out in support of 'Sylvia China Blast'?

So perhaps the criteria is disavow them if in costume when they commit the crime, but embrace them if they assume costume after the crime?

It will be interesting to see how the Dana Rivers situation plays out. A well known TRA, who was in costume at the time of committing double femicide and a homicide.

Frankly, if I was in charge of TRA PR, I would be no true scotsmanning all of them!

Interestingly there seems to be a number of serial killers who were also dressed as girls by their mothers when they were young and who have spoken about it to psych services who have concluded that the feeling of humiliation they experienced during that time had a relationship with developing hatred of women that was a part of their crimes as adults.

Wouldn't they have to hold women and girls in contempt already to consider being dressed in "girls clothing" to be humiliating?

How the eff can it be that our half of the population is the default insult for the other half of the population? Mind boggling, this society men built.