Is it possible not to agree thatTWAW

[BertrandRussell]

ans not be transphobic? Because I think transwomen are transwomen and deserve all the rights and protections of the law, and should to live their lives peacefully, unharnessed and using any names or pronouns they wish. But I don't think they are actually, literally women. Incidentally, neither does the only transperaon I know well enough who is old enough to ask. If thinking that makes me transphobic is she transphobic too?

Lemon Jello I would be interested to know that as the exemptions do not have to be used by orginasations it would be interesting to see what they concluded. the exemptions are used all the time in recruiting people it's there. biggest use most of us are aware of them in roles where they might be used eg the care of vulnerable groups. as the bar is high for there use you only see them in very specific jobs though.

Lemon I think this type of thing will get a lot more sympathy from the general public and liberal feminists like me if it was male known.

Sadly the focus is on silly stunts like Man Friday and the protesters at Pride that handed out leaflets about the 'rape culture' of being transgender. It's this stuff that gets the press and makes the GC feminists look crazy and mean.

*made known

Of course it would be a nightmare

Wha? Am I the only one who thinks that after the initial shock they’d be totally happy to start living life in a male body with all the privilege it entails (assuming in this ridiculous thought experiment nobody else is confused by the fact a woman has just become a man)?

"These exceptions are in place to protect women and I believe the way things work at the moment is just fine"
So you have no issues with the current position on sport and crime reporting?

Sadly the focus is on silly stunts like Man Friday and the protesters at Pride that handed out leaflets about the 'rape culture' of being transgender. It's this stuff that gets the press and makes the GC feminists look crazy and mean.

Silly stunts? It seems to have made the biggest impact.

Lesbians saying that lesbians are women who like other women and those that think that penises belong in lesbianism...IS rape culture. That was their very point. It isn't making feminists look mean it is making Pride look ridiculous. If a lesbian can't say they are into women, then what is the very point of Pride?

So you have no issues with the current position on sport and crime reporting?

These are valid points - I do think trans women have an unfair advantage over women in sports and crime reporting should note if an individual is trans.

Tells the insistence on accusing transgender people of rape culture just makes anyone remotely liberal switch off.

That's why not a single high profile person spoke out on support of the protestors.

Wha? Am I the only one who thinks that after the initial shock they’d be totally happy to start living life in a male body with all the privilege it entails (assuming in this ridiculous thought experiment nobody else is confused by the fact a woman has just become a man)?

I'd just be happy that my bones were no longer crumbling, my breasts would no longer be sore, my belly wouldn't be in agony so very often, I would have no use for the reuseable pads I bought, I could shave my head and not look weird at work - and mainly I could grow a funky MOUSTACHE. I've always wanted one.

And my hips would be smaller so I could wear lovely long blazers again - and I could just lose weight at the drop of a hat.

Fucking marvellous.

MAKE IT SO.

Where is that portal again? OPEN SESAME.

Tells the insistence on accusing transgender people of rape culture just makes anyone remotely liberal switch off.

That's why not a single high profile person spoke out on support of the protestors.

People do not speak out in support of anything as they are worried about TRAS violent reactions to anything resembling sanity.

Did you not see the reaction to Alison Moyet rejecting cis?

This is what the 82% are seeing. Violent reactions to perfectly sane situations.

ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ

Probably not the open sesame portal you wanted

I'm diving in anyway.

think this type of thing will get a lot more sympathy from the general public and liberal feminists like me if it was male known.

Well one would hope. However, my concern is that it seems to go like this:

The exemptions in the equality act can be used to exclude transwomen.

People such as yourself say they support these being used.

However, they don’t appear to be used much at all.

For example, none of the women’s orgs in Scotland seem to use them.

The conclusion drawn is that the exemptions could be applied but for some reason, aren’t.

Amd the reason they aren’t being applied seems to be that there are ‘no issues with transwomen accessing the service.’

And that’s where the analysis ends.

But women do have issues with transwomen accessing the service.

So either they are not being consulted or they are being ignored.

I believe it was our very own Snappity/ Gibberty who called VRR “odious” for not allowing transwomen to work there.

Yep.

So would you say Snappity/ Gibberty’s view (of VRR being odious) is not representative Daim?

And of course, even women who haven't up till now had a problem with TW accessing women's services know that the move to self-ID - happening in reality even without change in legislation - is likely to have some profoundly bad consequences.

Sorry, what's VRR?

It's only women who get lambasted too. I've just seen a gay man writing really horrible things about some prominent TRAs and do you know how much abuse he got? None.

I'm afraid you are transphobic Bertrand. Juno Dawson says so

Vancouver rape relief

Lemon Jello I think this is exactly the point organisations do not have to use them and I would hope have considered if they do with the service users that use the service if they have done this and concluded that they are not needed is it not exceptable to think that maybe they are not needed in that instance. the exemptions are not. a. blanket thing but are used on. a. case by case basis people on here often assume they can be used in a blanket way and therefore all organisations should be using them

Lemon Jello also I woudl say that that view is not representive of people who actually work in these areas that use those exemptions. lots of TRA are wanting something not knowing the reality of what they are asking for

I don’t think that all orgs should automatically use the exemptions Bespin.
I think they should have to do a thorough impact assessment in consultation with ALL service users, not just the trans ones. And then use that to work out a way of meeting everyone’s needs.

We know that this is absolutely not happening eg from the Scottish Schools guidance where no impact assessment has been done, to Topshop changing rooms, to the swim England guidelines etc etc the list goes on.

And when I say meeting everyone’s needs, only when this is possible. In some cases it will not be possible and transwomen will have to be excluded as happens eg in the nhs as you have spoken about.

Why is it always “Trans women are women”? Nobody it appears, is trying to claim that trans men are men.
Is that significant? Are men not so keen to accept that some men have vaginas?