What can teachers and other professionals do to create a more gender free environment in our schools?

[SarahCarer]

As my dd is autistic and, as a result, Gender non Conforming (GNC) I thought I would share some thoughts about how to de-gender our schools.

Firstly, teachers need to find a way to address groups of children without saying "girls" or "boys" . This is commonplace in some schools and puts an unnatural focus onto a person's sex which is of no relevance at all in the context.

Secondly every school should have at least one unisex toilet which any pupil can use without special permission.

Thirdly school staff should avoid using the terms "good girl" or "good boy" Again the sex is of no relevance and the statement risks implying that they are being good because they are behaving in a way consistent with femininity or masculinity.

Fourthly ALL sexism and homophobia should be robustly challenged

Fifthly sex ed should not have gendered content

Sixthly there should be no organising of classes with reference to sex except in PE or for sex ed.

Any thoughts on these suggestions or suggestions for others?

These are some of the ways we can protect our autistic children from gender dysphoria (GD)

You either need to accept your radical idea about stereotyping has been about since the 60's, or really explain how this isn't just the same as stopping sterotypes?

Maybe we should wipe the slate clean now and try from the start, Giles is right I think all of us are tied in Knott's.

I know exactly what I mean and will happily explain again to anyone in good faith. A few posters have ignored answers I have already given and repeatedly asked me the same questions and twisted my words. I have told you exactly what I mean by sex and gender. Captain said "masculinity is not gender" so I could really do with understanding what captain thinks gender is in order to establish a shared understanding and explain myself in a way she can understand.

I'm really trying to understand you, I honestly am, but you say "gender is societal construct", in one breath, which I get and can go with, I understand this.
But then you say things where you mix sex into it and it gets confusing.

You do want to abolish sex.

you don't want boys to be called boys and you don't want girls to be called girls .
You think penises and vaginas need to piss in the same toilet. You want no differentiation for sex education . This is all about sex. Don't pretend it isn't . If your dd suffers from gender dysphoria, as many with autism do , you should be helping her not making it worse by encouraging her to think there's something wrong with being a woman .

And to answer noble's question; noble you gave me a non arbitrary reason to sit students boy girl. I still think it would be preferable if teachers didn't do this.

Boy and girls are not social constructs, boys are male, girls are female children.
Saying "good boy" isn't categorizing a boy.

You say you want gendered stuff taken out of schools however alot if what you have suggested isn't about he set but about ignoring biological sex which is harmful as it ignores why people have the struggles they do.

"Come on boys get to class" - fine

"Oh god boys are always late to class" not fine.

And gender neutral toilets are just indulging the nonsense and putting girls at risk as it's ignoring why we have sex segregation in the first place.

You say your dd is ok being a girl then as long as she's not being treated unfavourably as a result then what's the problem acknowledging she's a girl.

What needs changing is the attitudes towards girls and boys the expectations that are different for girls and boys and the assigning of roles into kids based on stereo types and using socialization to your advantage.

Daring to mention boys are boys and girls are girls is not the problem

@seasure I have explicitly stated the opposite of all those things in this thread.

From what you have said, your child doesn't follow stereotypes, this is great, she's a girl, she's awesome she should be proud of herself.

"Pupils" and "students" are very formal. No one calls me "teacher". I would say "class" sometimes (the class names are not anything they would relate to, not like primary) and guys as well. Obviously using their names is best. Though it can be effective to say "could the girl looking at her phone stop it now!" as about five girls all out their phones away.
I don't tell them I've written the seating plan boy/girl when I do, though I suppose they notice.

Meant to say one problem with guys it is clearly an originally male term, so girls are sort of "joining" it.

Sarah, you have in fact explicitly stated in your op all the different ways you want sex removed . It's there in plain sight .

Giles thank you there's a post I can engage with. I agree with all you've said and I don't think that is radical. My radical suggestion is this:

Children enforce gender stereotypes upon each other. Many seem to have a strong urge to put themselves into sex based groups, as noble said. I (and a number of other posters on this thread) think it would be preferable to reduce the number of times they are reminded consciously or unconsciously that others categorize them socially on the basis of their sex. So yes it is preferable to say "Now then class 5A" instead of "now then boys and girls" and it would not be acceptable to say "now then black children and white children" which is a comparison I do think it worth making. Of course I have no objection to the statement "boys have penises and girls have vaginas" and I in no way think we should want to abolish sex differences or imagine that we can. I have had to actively explain to my dd that she is female and cannot change sex and I have no issue doing so.

And the thing that got me thinking this way was my dd who was distressed by the expression "good girl" and with constantly being called a girl. She knows she is a girl and is not ashamed of it. She also knows she has size 5 feet and is not ashamed of that but would be equally bewildered and frustrated if teachers referred to her and other similar children as "size fives" every day

@Mistressiggi how about learners?

Many seem to have a strong urge to put themselves into sex based groups

But you also object to mixing up the sexes with seating plans.

If you want teachers to stop doing it, you have to come up with a better reason than ‘I’d rather you didn’t’.

Many seem to have a strong urge to put themselves into sex based groups

Why do you think this is?

She knows she is a girl and is not ashamed of it.
But she was distressed by and and being called a girl???

I know my name, but people call me it.

🙄

I’m a teacher, I value every child’s happiness, progress and opportunities equally.

Sexism is treated in the same way as homophobia and racism- ie not tolerated.

Maths word problems have Barry dividing bunches of flowers between friends and Mandy the mechanic multiplying number of tyres per car in her garage.

The problem lies with wider society, not schools.

FYI: I would never use a unisex bathroom and think this is a RIDICULOUS suggestion esp in high schools.

Please don’t go into politics OP.

"If you want teachers to stop doing it, you have to come up with a better reason than ‘I’d rather you didn’t’." Yes fair point. Well it's the categorisation again ("sit yourselves boy girl boy girl" is reminding children that they are socially placed into two categories) but actually you can get away from that to a certain extent by not being explicit per mistressiggi's suggestion, which, again, is a fair point.

"Many seem to have a strong urge to put themselves into sex based groups
Why do you think this is?"

At least in part I think it is because from their first day at school they have been continually reminded that they are socially categorised according to their sex, but I also concede it starts earlier and that, in neurotypical children, there is often an early urge to adopt stereotypical gender traits

Have you seen the threads on here ‘can men and women be friends, or does sex always come into it?’

There may be more to it than gender stereotyping...

sit yourselves boy girl boy girl" is reminding children that they are socially placed into two categories
Yes boy or girl, because they are boy or girl.
You keep bringing sex into it, then outright denying you're doing it.

"The problem lies with wider society, not schools." Wow. I am so relieved. No sexism in schools. Phew! Must be such a haven for all children.

And for the gazillionth time on this thread, I am not trying to do away with single sex toilets and never suggested I did! Many schools have at least one private unisex toilet that pupils can use if they feel they need to. But not my dd's school.