What can teachers and other professionals do to create a more gender free environment in our schools?

[SarahCarer]

As my dd is autistic and, as a result, Gender non Conforming (GNC) I thought I would share some thoughts about how to de-gender our schools.

Firstly, teachers need to find a way to address groups of children without saying "girls" or "boys" . This is commonplace in some schools and puts an unnatural focus onto a person's sex which is of no relevance at all in the context.

Secondly every school should have at least one unisex toilet which any pupil can use without special permission.

Thirdly school staff should avoid using the terms "good girl" or "good boy" Again the sex is of no relevance and the statement risks implying that they are being good because they are behaving in a way consistent with femininity or masculinity.

Fourthly ALL sexism and homophobia should be robustly challenged

Fifthly sex ed should not have gendered content

Sixthly there should be no organising of classes with reference to sex except in PE or for sex ed.

Any thoughts on these suggestions or suggestions for others?

These are some of the ways we can protect our autistic children from gender dysphoria (GD)

How dare we seek to implement behaviour management strategies in our classrooms...there must be no reason for it.

In fairness noble behaviour strategies involving quite conforming girls sat as buffer zones between disruptive boys is lazy and harmful my dd has been on the "rota" for a while it's done nothing to benefit either of the kids the teacher just has no idea as she keeps her mouth shut so I guess life is easier that way.

However looking at why this is done and why it's predominantly girls used for these strategies and why the other kids are behaving the way they are would he more useful

That’s slightly more complicated than a straightforward boy girl seating plan, Giles. You need to know who your disruptive boys and compliant girls are, for a start. Compliant boys can also be used as a buffer once you know your class. I start with corners of the rooms for the most annoying kids, these may be girls or boys.

But the teacher I know who uses boy-girl seating plans does it at the start when they don’t know the class. I always start with alphabetical order. They prioritise behaviour, I prioritise learning names.

I truly do not understand OP.
Your arguments contradict your aims.
And I don’t think you’ve been in schools recently (since the 1950’s?) as much of what you suggest I have never seen in my entire, long, teaching career.
To be able to continue to teach today despite the crappy curriculum changes, the paperwork, the data targets, the constantly changing goal posts, the changes to pretty much all the terms and conditions including our pensions and retirement ages, the culture of blame by the media, parents and the government ...I could go on but I need to get up really early to finish school work I didn’t finish today or last night... teachers need to 100% be invested in supporting, nurturing, inspiring every child regardless of gender, skin colour, socio-economic position, etc etc to fulfill their academic potential (our employment depends on that) and understand the wider world and their own unique place within it.
You seem to think that this isn’t true which is quite insulting.

Schools tackle rascism, homophobia, sexism- you name it- everyday. The problem isn’t in schools. Schools are leading the way in challenging so many “isms” that the children bring through our doors that they parrot from having heard at home/on tv/in crappy video games and films.
And yes, further to your previous response, I do feel that for the overwhelming majority of all children, schools are a safe haven. We are constantly striving to make it so.

WOW!....this thread has just blow my head in....?!....🤯

I can sort of understand where OP is coming from on some sense!
But why should all the children who understand and accept BOYS are BOYS and GIRLS are GIRLS not be communicated by their gender? E.G; well done girls for that fantastic piece of work?...(by this I'm meaning the group of girls are not DG)!
Surely you an speak to your DD teacher if she suffers DG and as them to relate to her in another form, such as E.G; well done child or if she was in a group "well done children".
As for toilet situation all schools have a disabled toilet for male and female to use, so why don't you ask them if she can use this?
There are ways and means to help with your DD DG without forcing it upon other children.
OP teachers/staff would be the easiest ones to make it comfortable for your DD the problems will come from other children, as children will find it difficult to understand DG and ya can't blame them tbh as it absolutely blown my mind!!🤯...also if children don't understand DG it won't be them been racist about it as to be fair it is a quite complicated matter!

Giles I’ve been thinking more about your compliant girls as buffer zones.

Seating plans are one of the biggest tools of behaviour management a teacher has. Get it right and a class can become so much easier to manage. If you have disruptive students, then you are not going to sit them next to each other - that way madness lies. So you split the disruptive students up around the class. Ideally disruptive students would be sat on their own but with increasing class sizes, there aren’t always desks that can be left empty. So they have to be sat next to someone, and obviously you’re going to sit them next to well-behaved students. If they are the sort of student who is going to turn around and mess around with the kids behind them too, then you need to surround them with well-behaved students.
In one of my classes at the moment I have a disruptive (incredibly chatty) girl. I have tried sitting her next to lots of different combinations of girls in the class (I tend to pair girls with girls and boys with boys in my seating plans because they generally work better together) and every single girl, even nice quiet well-behaved ones, she has ended up chatting to and dragging into conversation instead of working. I finally placed her next to a nice boy, and you know what? They don’t talk to each other.

So you may see the ‘compliant girls used as a buffer zone’ thing, and think that it’s because girls are socialised into being compliant so girls are used. But actually it is probably more effective than using boys because they are the opposite sex to the more usual antagonist.

I do also think that it doesn't work because if it did anything to change the undesirable behaviour then you would effectively be able to sit them with anyone as they would have learnt not to talk or distract people.

The fact this can start early on in school and by year six still be the go to strategy cos those kids still can't be trusted to behave show it's not actually doing anything. It's just placing the responsibility of controlling the class onto someone ekse. Someome else who doesn't get to sit next to their friend or get to chose the group's they work in because other people cant behave.

The kids shouldn't not be talking to eachother either just because ones a boy and ones a girl. Surely that's just creating a divide and using the stereotypes and socialization to your advantage

Giles we have to work with the world that we’re given, not pretend the world is as we would like it to be, then wonder why it all goes wrong.

So we don’t sit gossipy kids next to their best mates. We don’t leave the blinds open when PE is going on outside. We don’t allow mobile phones in school. We give kids a fighting chance to actually focus on the work in front of them. And if a kid is disruptive, we sanction them and eventually remove them from the classroom to give the other kids a fighting chance too.
I get that you’re primary-focused. In secondary, we see them for 2-4 hours a week and have to use all the tools at our disposal.

But my kid didn't get kuch of a fighting chance when she was being elbowed or having the kid man spread his stuff all over the desk. Or being obstructed from seeing the board.

It's not ok to leave one kid in the shit just cos it makes things easier for everyone else.

Obviously not, Giles which is why I said in my post that disruptive kids are sanctioned and/or removed from the classroom. A good seating plan is good behaviour management. Allowing a kid to elbow another unchallenged is poor behaviour management.

Like I said, ideally the disruptive kids would be sat on their own, but class sizes may prevent this.

But doesn't it beg the question noble
Why the kids are selected for the role on the first place?

Because it's not every child and it's not every girl.

These kids and correct me if in wrong are chosen because they are perhaps higher achievers and the cost to their education is less than thise who are struggling.

And they are chosen because they don't speak up. They are quiet and well behaved and won't argue when told to go sit there.

You said yourself they often don't talk if get are the opposite sex.

So isn't that being tested unfavourably because of their sex?

And using the socialization to your advantage?
.those are stereotypes that need to be broken not enforced

Look I do sympathise I really do I feel really bad for teachers whis hands are tied and they have a group of kids who cabt he sat within 6 feet of eachother or all hell breaks loose. As well as having to keep on top of the friendship issues that make grouping difficult

I am not trying to deny how hard it just be and I do wish you had more time and money and resources to deal witg these things more effectively and have the back up of staff and parents to do so

But however you dress it up the root of it is based on stereotypes and socialization even if you don't mean it to be.

These kids and correct me if in wrong are chosen because they are perhaps higher achievers and the cost to their education is less than thise who are struggling.

I teach maths which is setted, and you can have disruptive kids of any ability, although generally the disruption is worse in the lower sets because obviously if they are disrupting, they are not learning so their attainment drops.

Boys attainment is generally (much) lower than girls (look at GCSE results, it’s shocking), they tend to be more physical, talk more in class, receive more sanctions in general for poor behaviour. I would say that how boys (and girls) are socialised by society in general has huge implications for education. By the time they get to secondary, their biggest influence is their peers so we’re mainly pissing into the wind on that front. Can more be done at primary? Possibly? More male primary teachers as role models? I’m sure my primary colleagues are doing an excellent job in increasingly difficult circumstances. But schools cannot be the solution to society’s ills. Kids spend way more time out of school than in, and are bombarded by more compelling messages from various sources than schools could ever hope to counter completely.

I can sit two disruptive kids together and try to teach them how to behave, or I can split them up and teach the whole class some maths. We have to go for the more second option, because that’s my job.

I'm not saying anyone is doing a bad job. And I do understand that you are between a rock and a hard place.

I as a parent an doing my best to try and teach my kids to behave and not be easily distracted and I certainly don't expect schools to do my job for me. In fact I wish patents would bloody parent so whoever my kid sits next to she won't have problems nor cause the problems herself.

I'm.just talking as the parent of a child who was the chosen one and for who it had a detrimental effect on.

And yes I'm.talkimg primary at the moment sue doenst move up til September.

It sounds like the pupil your DD was sat next to has more issues than just the socialisation of boys and girls.

Giles, that does really suck for your daughter. But I think it is part of a wider issue where the individual with poor behaviour isn't actually dealt with - especially if the behaviour is persistent but low level (such as constant chatting). That isn't something an individual classroom teacher can do anything about so by having seating plans they try to minimise the disruption for the whole class by sitting chatty students next to quiet ones. I agree it sucks, but unless we can get slt to agree that low level disruption is still disruption and persistent offenders need to be dealt with then there's not much more teachers can do.

On the general issue of seating plans - I let them sit where they want initially. That way I can figure out the friendship groups quickly and move children. It is usually obvious within a lesson or two who needs to be moved. And after moving 1-2 students in a class the rest tend to behave because they see sitting next to friends as a luxury. But then I teach in a (generally) good school where disruptive pupils are in the minority and the vast majority of students actually want to learn. I think it is particularly helpful for quiet but struggling students who want to ask their friends before putting their hand up.

red luckily she was moved very quickly this year but that wa sbt til after shed got stuck sat between 2 of them

Any other kids issues are not my business nor my concern. My job and her job is to turn up on time and behave and listen to the teacher and not disrupt the class. And to get on with her work.

The schools job is to facilitate the learning of all children preferably in a way which doesn't sacrifice one child's well being and ability to do their work for the sake of the rest of the class.

When behaviour deteriorates as they move up years then clearly strategies are about making it easier in the moment not solving long term.problems.

I sympathise I really do. But we can't expect to eradicate stereotypes and discrimination whilst simultaneously using it to our advantage.

Of course the role then went to Another hard working well behaved quiet girl...

Clearly they weren’t going to put them next to a disruptive girl or boy.

An issue with one child in primary school does not mean that using seating plans that pay attention to sex are wrong.

Giles if the seat continues too long ask the school to move her. I would have no problem with that and would always vary them regularly anyway. It’s worse than a bloody wedding sometimes without with the ones you’ve been told can’t sit together and the ones that need to be near the board and ones needing to be near the door. But it’s part of the job to make the arrangement most conducive to learning. Mixed sex plans certainly help with learning names too.
To return to OP there are times when sex is used when I absolutely think it should be avoided. I don’t line them up by sex, or do a boys v girls quiz, or say thing like “all the boys are being really noisy” or ask for a girl to take a message.

Greetings though are hard - it is polite and normal in our society to say ladies/gentleman/boys/girls. There aren’t many other choices. Comrades perhaps? “Learners” is very impersonal and makes you sound like you’ve been on one too many training courses, so that wouldn’t work for me.

My dd2 is GNC. She is a girl. She does not conform to gender stereotypes. She uses the girls toilets, girls changing rooms, and attends girl guides. She is fully aware that her biology categorizes her as female. She menstruates. I would be doing her a massive disservice if I trotted into school demanding separate facilities, and demanding they changed language and routine to accommodate her, because this in itself would be essentially putting a giant flashing neon sign over her head proclaiming her difference.
Far better that the rest of the school see her using the girls facilities, and change their stereotypical ideas about constitutes female or male.
I abhor the idea that GNC pupils should be treated differently. That is ostracizing and othering.
Awful.
These children are boys or girls. It is the children who believe in stereotypes that needs to have their values questioned, by accepting GNC kids as their biological sex.
Why would you think that othering a child with autism would be a good thing?

I am hilariously entertained by the gender free sex Ed. Sex Ed is about sex. Nothing to do with gender at all. I’m struggling to see how it could be gendered ‘to make a baby you need a person wearing a skirt and a person wearing trousers’ Nah. Sex Ed is taught by sex. Gender is irrelevant.

blackdoggotmytongueagain

Very well put!

blackdog - in what way does your DD “not conform to gender stereotypes”?

On the general issue of seating plans - I let them sit where they want initially. That way I can figure out the friendship groups quickly and move children. It is usually obvious within a lesson or two who needs to be moved. And after moving 1-2 students in a class the rest tend to behave because they see sitting next to friends as a luxury. But then I teach in a (generally) good school where disruptive pupils are in the minority and the vast majority of students actually want to learn. I think it is particularly helpful for quiet but struggling students who want to ask their friends before putting their hand up.

Well done. You come across as trying to do your best for the children whereas some of the other posters seem to expect children to be the ones to deal with disruptive kids because the teacher either can't or won't and that's pretty disgusting IMO.

Can I add my two pennies worth on seating plans? I have a distracted, chatty son and a compliant, perfect daughter. Both NT both in grammar school.

My ds has to sit at the front - preferably in front of the teacher, preferably next to a compliant girl - he then works hard. The girls are happy to sit with him - he is very capable and fun and makes a good working partner.

My dd is often used as a “buffer” and has no issues with it - having an older brother she has no issues with telling them to shut up and get on with their work. She is academically at the top of the class and I genuinely think the boys up their game because they don’t want to look bad in comparison to her. In group work she is a hard task master. She isn’t one of the cool girls but the boys seem to behave well when sitting with her.

So two very different children, but both benefit from intelligent seating plans.

Gender neutral uniform is a pet hate of mine! Basically it’s making girls wear the boys uniform and trousers not cut to flatter a female body. Our school allows girls to wear trousers and I would say less then 1% do - they still manage to take part in many sports, play in orchestras, act, dance and many other things

I don't think I want teachers to enforce some sort of bland non- gendered uniformity (which I am not sure the OP meant?)
What we want is for sec stereotypes to be challenged, for GNC children to be valued and celebrated, and definitely not bullied. Hard task for teachers to tackle, given that in every other sphere of existence GNC kids and adults have very little visibility or support. (except to be told they are trans)