Repeat after us: TWAW

[Floorplan]

Is this some kind of joke? No its real.

datun - touché! I was trying to articulate something like that, but you did it so much better.

floral, it takes real courage to change a strongly held view like that. Good on you!

Sophocles, I appreciate you saying that, and I have done things in my life that have required bravery. Walking away from an abusive father, dealing with stays in mixed sex mental health wards and the abuse inside them, coming out of Christian fundamentalism.

Stopping dismissing the abuse and lack of rights of other women and instead beginning to actively fight for those rights for them was not brave of me, it was the very least I could do as someone who claimed to be a decent person.

I'm not dismissing women's attempts to help others, just pointing out that there will always be violent relationships between violent people and deaths will always occur unless we can change human nature - this isn't a conspiracy against women.

You sound like an absolute warrior floral

Thank you for the lesson. We are enriched and enlightened.

Flutterby, that's interesting. I believe Jesus said 'The poor you will always have with you' but no Christian worth the name has ever said that we shouldn't do everything we can to assist the poor.

So I'm not sure why you think it's logical to say that humans are doing evil things to each other, therefore we shouldn't bother to drill into the specifics of that and do all can to put an end to it.

So, male violence is the cause of extreme and widespread suffering. Should it be challenged or should we just shrug and say "Yeah, shit happens"? What do you think, flutterby?

Great respect, Floral.

I too have experienced some very difficult times in my life. They taught me, slowly and painfully, that I can endure nearly anything so long as I have love. I have achieved what is, by my standards, a certain wisdom, which is unexpected.

I know this opinion may offend, but I already think the stats are relatively low compared to other concerns (why I mentioned example of suicide). Obv still a terrible thing to occur at all but humans can be really horrible.

Yes, you've mentioned that all through the thread. I'm encouraging you to do more than just shrug at the reality of abuse and oppression. Really. I don't know why you think that's an appropriate response to the topic. If your kid was attacked and beaten, would you tell them you were sorry about the fear and pain and all that, but humans are shitty, and do they realize how many adults committed suicide? And then not bother reporting it and pressing charges against the aggressor?

I know this opinion may offend

No it doesn't. It doesn't affect anyone else.

One effective (though not foolproof) way of dealing with male violence against women is to have women's single sex/sex-segregated spaces in situations where women's safety, privacy, dignity etc are paramount...

to all on the thread who have been very gracious to me this evening. I am off to my truckle bed now, so I will leave you to it until some time tomorrow. KBO.

to Floral - it takes real guts to change a strongly held belief

Flutterby - it's just classic dissemblance to say that we shouldn't be concerned about women being killed by their partners because men are killing themselves at higher rates.

flutterby

I genuinely don't know what you want.

Do you actually want feminists and feminism to centre men?

Because in the meantime, what happens to the women who need feminism?

Who campaigns for the end to FGM, period poverty, honour killings. Who supports legislation to end the gender pay gap, uphold maternity rights and breastfeeding protocols. Who lobbies parliament about the erosion of women's rights and safeguarding re the GRA reforms. Who highlights the vaginal mesh scandal, supports abortion laws. Who counts dead women in parliament, rides to raise money for DV victims, crowd funds for rape victims, campaigns to instruct juries in rape myths. The list is never ending.

Who's doing all that?

Maybe flutterby should check out some of those 'stats' ?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jean-hatchet/ride-for-murdered-womenbb_15651476.html

I just don't think it's a helpful thing to effectively demonise men as a group because of the actions of less than 0.01% of them, especially when drastically more are killing themselves than they are women. The 'privileged white male' is the minority at the top and the 'violent male' is the minority at the bottom. The vast majority are somewhere in between and the fact that most violent crime is committed by men doesn't change this fact IMO.

Flutterby - do you understand the concept of class analysis?

I'm not sure how useful class analysis is when the sample represents less than 0.01% of the class.

The 'privileged white male' is the minority at the top and the 'violent male' is the minority at the bottom

Eh? Sometimes they're one and the same.

Violent behaviour is a continuum. Murder is the tip of the iceberg.
Anyway, if you don't think it's useful then please feel free to go and do something more useful yourself.

I'm not sure how useful class analysis is when the sample represents less than 0.01% of the class.

So the answer is no, then

Well this is a successful derailment, isn't it?

We all know that to flutterby and her ilk women aren't important (unless they have penises of course). Who cares if a few get killed; it's no loss.

Now, back to the important business of discussing how important men are, and how we can centre them in all topics.

I guess if flutterby thinks that sort of percentage of a class is statistically insignificant and not worth discussing then TW are irrelevant?

Wow, it's not hard to spot when a troll completely and utterly derails a thread, is it? At least our resident Genderist Faithful manage to vaguely stay on topic, even if it is all a bit 1984. (Finally had time to read this entire thread).

So in a shameless attempt at re-railing...

It's Social Commentary

that's interesting
in which case the artist may well be making a different comment to what we're been inferring here.

Yes, that is an interesting point. But it is always hard to tell the difference between legit 'trans activism' and 'trans parody'. That's the bit I struggle with.

Apologies for my earlier rant. I was so bloody mad that London Pride were "clamping down" [on lesbians protesting about their erasure]. This is what we are up against, a male-dominated organisation riding roughshod over women who stand up for their rights. As lesbians. To exclude penis or ladycock from the definition of lesbian.

But then I got to read such pearls of wisdom such as:
Lasagne has to be understood in context.

Which lightened my mood, a lot. It's a keeper!

IIRC that is called Poe's Law.