Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What's wrong with fighting for the third space?

877 replies

DJLippy · 09/07/2018 22:22

Can't we resolve all these Trans vs feminist issues with a third space option?

Male/Female as well as unisex intimate spaces
Unisex for those who do not mind (or don't want to wait ages for the bog!) But M/F spaces respect those who have religious reasons for intimate spaces away from the opposite sex and also people who need these spaces because of trauma.

Prison's for transgender folk who feel threatened in male spaces.
Nobody should be at risk from sexual violence

Domestic violence and rape crisis support services for transwomen.
Don't trans folk deserve specialist services? If I was a victim of assault I would want people who understood me to provide support

This is all I want and I am sure many women on this sight feel the same. Is this a valid working compromise?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
pombear · 10/07/2018 23:21

Sorry to derail the sherry debate.

But I'm not sure where to post this, and I think this thread is the most relevant, re third spaces.

I went shopping in a retail park M & S late this evening. (Yep, that M & S despair is a whole other thread itself on Style and Beauty, so we'll gloss over that!).

To the male-bodied trans person who was looking at 'female-classified' shoes, I hope it was a good experience for you and you found what you were looking for. Shoes shouldn't be gendered.

But if you were hoping you 'passed', you didn't. I'm really sorry (female socialisation apologising going on) I deliberately didn't stare, didn't single you out. But I knew exactly who you were.

But it means if I'd have seen you going into the changing rooms with me, I'd have felt a little bit uncomfortable, but hey, they're all single rooms .

It was very quiet, there were few people around this evening in the store, full stop. Nothing like a previous poster's assertions that A transsexual will likely be hugely outnumbered by the group that they are supposedly a threat to in the ladies changing rooms. I think there were only one or two other people in the changing rooms this evening.

And I'm a pretty feisty, confident female, so it's not a problem for me.

But I'm here for the females it might be a problem for.

For the changing room staff, for the females who don't feel comfortable or safe around male-bodied people.

I realise I'm projecting, as that shopper I saw may never have ventured into the changing rooms.

But the consistent drilling message from some quarters about 'we need to be in your space, otherwise we're unsafe' doesn't hold sway with me.

If you don't feel safe in male-bodied spaces, that doesn't give you an automatic 'in' to female-bodied spaces.

You need to find another solution. Otherwise it just feels like an abusive forcing into other's spaces.

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 10/07/2018 23:22

As a woman this probably sounds terrible but two women a week being killed is an utterly vanishing number given how many million there are in the UK. I just don't understand why people get so incredibly overwrought about what is likely to be the actions of reprobates vastly unrepresentative of the average male and likely also linked to drugs/alcohol abuse in many instances.

They probably have egg shell skulls too. Don't forget that important detail.

pombear · 10/07/2018 23:26

As a woman this probably sounds terrible but two women a week being killed is an utterly vanishing number given how many million there are in the UK. I just don't understand why people get so incredibly overwrought about what is likely to be the actions of reprobates vastly unrepresentative of the average male and likely also linked to drugs/alcohol abuse in many instances.

Wow;
Ah yes, stop getting overwrought about women getting killed. It's just drugs and alcohol, and hey, there are millions of people in the UK not getting killed. Vanish those women. Vanish them?!

Bespin · 10/07/2018 23:28

pombear can I ask but only one of you seems to have been watching other shopper in a store. The trans woman was just shopping Does that not seem strange to you. I can get what you are saying but she was just shooping for shoes which I can tell ya in larger sizes is a bit crap as they think ladies with larger feet want boring looking shoes

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/07/2018 23:33

We need an actual thread to link all these recipes to

Bespin · 10/07/2018 23:35

Rufustheyawningreindeer I beleive mums. net as a whole section on cooking and food. it apparently as other stuff too as if anyone ever goes out of this section lol

Ereshkigal · 10/07/2018 23:37

A kir royale doesn't have kirsch! It is cassis!

Now you say it I don't know why I said that Smile

Pratchet · 10/07/2018 23:37

Pom bear, I hear that

Flutterby1891 · 10/07/2018 23:38

Of course it'd be horrible thing to happen, but it's hardly an epidemic and nothing like the 84 men who commit suicide a week - a figure I was totally unaware of until my friend's son killed himself. But of course anyone who dares contrast these figures is an MRA.

I care about people, not just women, and the latter figure disturbs me much more.

Pratchet · 10/07/2018 23:38

All of it male violence

pombear · 10/07/2018 23:40

Oh hello Bespin. There was something you were going to pick up today in terms of thread-debate, but I've been at work as I'm sure you have been, and I've forgotten what it was. I'll try to go back, before I go to bed.

I don't really understand your post 'only one of me seems to have been watching the other shopper in store'? It was just me commenting on shopping this evening, you know? Just me. I didn't bring a pack of shopping-people.

I was highlighting a previous poster who commented about A transsexual will likely be hugely outnumbered by the group that they are supposedly a threat to in the ladies changing rooms. exactly to point out that often there's not this weird 'outnumbering of the group' - there were so few people in the store this evening, I couldn't see this outnumbering crowd of women in the changing room .

I was highlighting that changing rooms, in quiet times, are not a swarm of 'outnumbering' people in the changing rooms that may threaten a transwoman's place there. It was a ghost town.

How are female-bodied people, or, indeed, transwomen, able to call out potentia concerns if our female-bodied defined space if we are not able to name it?

Takinrujomu · 10/07/2018 23:42

As a woman this probably sounds terrible but two women a week being killed is an utterly vanishing number given how many million there are in the UK. I just don't understand why people get so incredibly overwrought about what is likely to be the actions of reprobates vastly unrepresentative of the average male and likely also linked to drugs/alcohol abuse in many instances.
I can't believe a woman wrote that .. but then from what I have learnt over the last few days there are a lot of crowd pleasers.
I am still trying to comprehend how a penis can be a woman... So Tom in designs decides he fancies himself as a woman tomorrow ,can now share the women's toilet because he flipping feels like a Barbara?! what crazy world have I entered?? The rights of the majority can make no difference and must be trampled on by the feelings of a minority?

By the way, I feel so worn out being a biological woman, I want to self if as a cat as cats seem to have a rather easy life. Anyone know how I can do that?

Bespin · 10/07/2018 23:42

to be honest both figure are really disturbing for different reasons and the lack of mentel heath provision in this country is shameful

Ereshkigal · 10/07/2018 23:42

Eresh my DH is a big fan of anything he can add to prosecco, including kirsch (and St Germaine/triple sec/ chambord etc).

Sounds wonderful Smile

Takinrujomu · 10/07/2018 23:43

Stupid autocorrect . I meant self id

Pratchet · 10/07/2018 23:44

Well, they have male violence in common

Bespin · 10/07/2018 23:45

hi pombear ya I have forgotten the. exact topic, it was not a critisim of your post but if you were aware that you were the one observing another shopper and reporting on it to other people and they were just shopping.

Bespin · 10/07/2018 23:46

Ereshkigal surely if we can agree on nothing else we can say adding stuff to prosecco is just wrong lol

Takinrujomu · 10/07/2018 23:46

*Of course it'd be horrible thing to happen, but it's hardly an epidemic and nothing like the 84 men who commit suicide a week - a figure I was totally unaware of until my friend's son killed himself. But of course anyone who dares contrast these figures is an MRA.

I care about people, not just women, and the latter figure disturbs me much more.*

Please can you tell us where you got these stats from? I'd be interested to know how this has gone unnoticed

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 10/07/2018 23:49

Flutterby, women actually attempt suicide even more frequently than that, they're just less likely to succeed

pombear · 10/07/2018 23:53

Bespin I didn't 'report' my observation to anyone else apart from here, on the anonymous internet.

But to your point about 'reporting' - at what stage is a female-bodied person allowed, in your world view, to feel uncomfortable with an obviously male-bodied person, regardless of the 'gender' they identify with, and 'report' it to someone else?

In changing rooms?

In NHS wards?

When that person is carrying out intimate examinations on that female?

Of course there's no reason I would have gone off an 'reported' an obviously male-bodied person shopping for stuff that our society has deemed 'female-stuff'. They were just looking for shit shoes with heels!

But I'm interested - at what stage is it that I am deemed allowable to 'report' an obviously male-bodied person in the spaces and places currently allocated for female-bodied people?

Yambabe · 10/07/2018 23:57

Just fucking stop it with the suicide stats shit. Really.

Suicide and MH issues is a totally different thiing. It's especuially prevalent amongst young men. It's got fuckall to do with trans issues despite the bogus figures that always get quoted and it boils my piss that people who are running out of decent arguments always bring it up.

Just fucking stop. It's irrelevant and it's fucking annoying.

Yam.
Mum to a clinically depressed 20-something son who attempted suicide 3 times. Because life is shit sometimes. For everyone.

Angry
Ereshkigal · 10/07/2018 23:58

Ereshkigal surely if we can agree on nothing else we can say adding stuff to prosecco is just wrong lol

No it looks like there is nothing we agree on Smile

Ereshkigal · 10/07/2018 23:59

Mum to a clinically depressed 20-something son who attempted suicide 3 times. Because life is shit sometimes. For everyone.

Yam Thanks

pombear · 11/07/2018 00:03

Yam Flowers That's much deeper than the thread's original premise, and wanted to acknowledge your post. I agree.