'Get the L Out' Statement by the lesbian protesters at Pride London

[R0wantrees]

getthelout.wordpress.com/blog/

Why “Get The L Out” ?
July 5, 2018
Angela C. Wild
Who We Are

Get the L Out is a group of lesbian and feminist individuals and organisations, opposing the increasingly anti-lesbian and misogynistic LGBT movement and the erasure of lesbians

Why We Protest

We believe that lesbian rights are under attack by the trans movement and we encourage lesbians everywhere to leave the LGBT and form their own independent movement, as well as to be vocal and take action against the proposed changes to the GRA.

Get the L Out believes trans politics (with uncritical support from the LGBT movement) does the following:

Promotes the social transition of lesbians, encouraging them to present as straight men thus favouring the pretence of heterosexuality over lesbianism – this is nothing more than a form of conversion therapy.
Promotes the medical transition of lesbians and pushes harmful drugs (untested hormone blockers, Lupron etc.) as well as unnecessary medical practices on perfectly healthy bodies – these are a form of misogynist medical abuse against lesbians.
Promotes the rights of heterosexual males who “identify” as women and lesbians (despite most of them still retaining their male genitals) over the rights of lesbians to choose their sexual partners. This new ‘queer’ LGBT politics thus coerces lesbians to accept the penis as a female organ and promotes heterosexual intercourse between male and female as a form of lesbian sex. This is simply a new facet to rape culture and compulsory heterosexuality." (continues)

When we say no, the response is to demand that we then solve the problem. They should grow up and sort it without harming us. It irritates me when they say we should do all the work for them.

Hear, hear.

Also it is profoundly sexist that someone, somewhere, deemed that the best solution for men with this particular disorder, and no other disorder, is to 'affirm' them support them in it and change the definition of the word woman to no longer mean a distinct group and ignore the consent, boundaries, rights and protections of women to achieve it - without asking women if we fucking well mind.

How sexist is this solution to a male problem?

Absolutely Clarice. I'm constantly amazed that women who say they are "bloody brilliant feminists" like freezingsheep can't see that.

Where did it start?

I do remember the origins. I remember hearing about male lesbians as far back as the late 80s and by the mid 90s this idea was fairly common, as was the idea of the body as text and as 'cyber' and the notion of 'queerness'. I think a few things happened.

1. The taking over of women's studies by gender studies.
2. The rise of pomo and poststructuralist thinking and the replacement of 'bodies' as the subject of (even the) social sciences by 'texts' (a move away from materialism and reality).
3. The acceptance of postmodernism by feminism as the default feminism.
4. A rise in gay activism precipitated by the AIDS crisis that led to gay men colonising women's studies and their texts (based on Foucault, Halperin and others) becoming the central ones, displacing older women's writings.
5. GLBT organisations becoming mainstream (with men at their helm) and with some rich male backers.
6. The commercialisation of medicine and the rise of user-pays choice surgery / drugs.
7. The psych professions backing out of debate in embarrassment re previous treatment of gays (I note they have never apologised for what they did to women in the 50s and 60s).
8. Internet activism.

The first I remember reading about all this was in a 1992 article by Jacqueline Zita in Hypatia called "Male Lesbians and the Female Body". It's worth a read.

Ok. Lots of responses. I'm doing this on my phone, which is tricky, but I'll try my best.

So on one hand you say you "can understand that there may be certain spaces where still having a penis might make this more problematic/embarrassing for all involved" (how fucking dismissive you are of women's privacy and dignity) and the next you're talking about full surgery?
PS I didn't say they should be in men's spaces. I said they shouldn't be in women's. Because male.

I'm not meaning to sound dismissive about women's privacy and dignity. I'm saying that I, personally, am happy to share all MY "safe" women's spaces with a gender dysphoric transwoman (is it ok if I shorten to GDTW?) who has fully transitioned. But while I recognise that that person, in her brain, feels like a woman, while she still has a penis, that makes it a different story. For me, a GDTW walking into a woman's changing room and using a cubicle to change pre-surgery is not a problem for me. Walking in and just stripping off naked would be. Walking in and stripping off in the corner, embarrassed, with pants still on and penis still strapped down, trying to draw no attention? Christ, maybe this is my privilege again but I can't imagine how humiliating that must be. So I went for "problematic/embarrassing for all involved". Would I send her to the mens in that circumstance? Me personally - no.

And yes, the lack of perceived safety in the mens room is a men problem, and not "ours to solve", but I feel bad for those GDTW who feel like they have no spaces. So if they are respectful, and don't violate the "safety" of the space, I don't mind sharing. Note that I put "safe" in quotes due to the number of times I have been in a womens toilet that has had a bloke in it for no good reason whatsoever…

On women's prisons I agree [with the comments/extracts - haven't read the articles yet although always take DM with a bag o' salt]. Vulnerable women should not be jailed. Men and AGPs should not be in women's prisons. But I'm not saying the needs of men trump the needs of women, I'm saying the most vulnerable should be protected (generally and in law). Usually that's women, but once in a while that could be a GDTW. All I'm saying is not to rule out allowing people to consider those cases.

While it's -as you say- not my job to come up with a solution (I'm vastly underpaid if so!), I'd be happy with the law classing post-surgery GDTW as women in all respects other than anything specifically relevant to female biology and legislating generally to protect women, but allowing specific requests from pre-op GDTW for that classification to be heard on a case by case basis by a specifically appointed panel that was trusted by relevant groups and charities and included people who know a lot more about the issues than me.

Phew! Sorry for another long post - I can't seem to be succinct.

It took decades for suffrage. Bloody decades, in so many ways.
We have been battling to obtain equality ever since. Woman are still ridiculed, pigeonholed, overlooked.
This is my line in the sand.

I won’t be a sub set of WOMAN. Lesbians should not be expected to ‘suck lady dick’. My mother, daughter, nieces, and I should not be referred to as people with a cervix, missed out for AWSL, scholarships, sporting titles.
What all this has shown me is that men are still in a position of power, and they hate us uppity women, with views above our station. I now know how those suffragettes must have felt and if this was 1918 I would have been part of that direct action.
Proud of the protest on Saturday, brave women, who are not Anti Trans but pro Lesbian.

Thanks Ereshkigal and Spartacus

What underpins what you are both saying is sexism and misogyny.

A notion that women are less valuable than men and we must always cede ground we have won to the wounded males at the bottom of the hierarchy of inter-male dominance like the good, obedient, self-abnegating masochists we are raised to be.

Women - why not join together and tell them to fuck off?

FreezingSheep you are one of those women who don't mind. I am one of those women who do.

I want to keep my women only spaces.

How about you fight for a 3rd space for males with dysphoria and women like yourself to share?

Proud of the protest on Saturday, brave women, who are not Anti Trans but pro Lesbian.

I couldn't be more proud.

Women putting women first for a change.

Sorry - missed this:

Also it is profoundly sexist that someone, somewhere, deemed that the best solution for men with this particular disorder, and no other disorder, is to 'affirm' them support them in it and change the definition of the word woman to no longer mean a distinct group and ignore the consent, boundaries, rights and protections of women to achieve it.

It seems to be a swear word on here, but I have no issue with the calling myself a cis woman (not all the time, obviously, just when it's useful). It makes the distinction and keeps those boundaries very neatly. No trans woman of any kind will ever be a cis woman.

How sexist is this solution to a male problem?

Please don't forget the women who have this "disorder" and want to transition to men.

It seems to be a swear word on here, but I have no issue with the calling myself a cis woman
Because you don't see gender as the systemic means by which the female sex is oppressed by the male sex. It is a dirty word for all women who wish to reject gender oppression rather than identify with it.

Please don't forget the women who have this "disorder" and want to transition to men.

When the ECHR legislation was drawn up, females who believe themselves to be male were on no- one's minds. They believed all transsexuals had srs at the time, and most ftms don't.

Ftm are a completely different set of issues wrt women's rights. Some of which were touched on by the protestors.

Please don't forget the women who have this "disorder" and want to transition to men.

We don't discuss transmen much because they pose no threat to women's safety or our rights, Freezing. Anecdotally a lot of them use women only facilities for reasons of safety, privacy and dignity, just like other women do. Which is fine.

If an individual transman passes well enough to be perceived as a man then I assume they'll use the men's without issue, if they want to. However men may object and as long as it's objections - not bullying or violence - they have every right to object.

We focus on transwomen because sex segregated spaces were set up to ensure women's safety, privacy and dignity, and the whole point of excluding men from those spaces is made null by the intrusion by men who identify as women

We do not segregate on the basis of gender identity. We segregate on the basis of sex.

And why do we do that? Because males, however they identify, are guilty of the overwhelming majority of both sex and violent crimes. The UN Council for Refugees prioritizes creating single sex sanitary facilities for women and girls. This designs out the hazard of being naked or otherwise vulnerable while in possession of a female body.

Transwomen pose a potential threat to women, just as does any other male human being. Think Schroedinger's rapist.

Doesn't mean I'm accusing all transwomen of sex crimes, any more than I'd accuse men in general. But they do commit such crimes. 40% of transwomen in prison are in for violent/sex crimes.

Please take note people

Owen Jones, BBC daily politics 12/72018

"To be clear, the right to freedom of expression and the freedom to protest and amongst ... the most sacred rights we have, our ancestors fought and died for it."

Owen Jones, BBC daily politics 12/7/2018

"To be clear, the right to freedom of expression and the freedom to protest are amongst ... the most sacred rights we have, our ancestors fought and died for it."

What context did OJ say that anon?

The demands on police, as a result of the Trump protests OJ has been demanding

Thanks for clarifying. For a minute there I thought the 'we' and 'our' he referred to may have included lesbians.

No need to recalibrate..

Quote him to anyone, it should refer to all.

Not a fan of OJ, but he's not wrong on this. I don't think I've questioned anyone's right to protest, though, just said I can understand why people were upset by it, particularly given the timing and location.

I hope 'Get the L out' make a banner with his quote.

Because you don't see gender as the systemic means by which the female sex is oppressed by the male sex. It is a dirty word for all women who wish to reject gender oppression rather than identify with it.

This. I am a woman. They are not. They are the opposite sex. There's no need to qualify womanhood. I don't define myself by not being a male with a psychological condition.

FreezingSheep you are one of those women who don't mind. I am one of those women who do.

I want to keep my women only spaces.

How about you fight for a 3rd space for males with dysphoria and women like yourself to share?

THIS. Bully for you that you don't mind. Other women do, very much. That should decide the matter. The fact that it doesn't and that male people shout and stamp and get their way is evidence of the sexism we all deal with, that you as a feminist appear not really to notice.

"ust said I can understand why people were upset by it, particularly given the timing and location."
Yeah, why would lesbians want to be represented at Pride?

How about you fight for a 3rd space for males with dysphoria and women like yourself to share?

Yes, if you are happy to share, go ahead.

It seems to be a swear word on here, but I have no issue with the calling myself a cis woman (not all the time, obviously, just when it's useful). It makes the distinction and keeps those boundaries very neatly

freezingsheep many women and (in my experience) even more men who are not transgender disagree. A significant percentage of the population haven't even heard the term.

See thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3290927-AIBU-to-say-that-I-am-a-woman-not-a-non-man-non-trans-woman-or-cis-women

Wouldn't it be great to have badges made up so people could show their solidarity with the lesbians as they walk about.

Maybe there could be acronyms or symbols for 'Gay Man In Solidarity With Lesbians', or 'Het Woman In Solidarity With Lesbians' or 'Het Man In Solidarity With Lesbians', so people can demonstrate that most people are in favour people being able to gather exclusively with others of their own same sex orientation.

Most people are fucking appalled that lesbians are being called fascists for wanting boundaries.