Stonewall condemn transphobia at London Pride

[SarahAr]

"As a cis lesbian I also want to condemn in the strongest terms the actions of the people yesterday who claim to represent me"

www.stonewall.org.uk/our-work/blog/trans/pride-london-transphobia

No one is claiming to represent you. They're saying they reject transactivism which they feel erases lesbian boundaries.

Disagree. Fine.

The same Stonewall that boycotted London Pride? The same one that has a survey showing that Pride organisers rate Stonewall poorly?

Why aren't they condemning those trans people who are promoting rape culture and "cotton ceiling" instead? They could call them out, call out the actions that the protesters were protesting about. At the very least they could say that it was just a small minority of trans people, and not representative.
But oh no, let's demonize the protesters instead.

Ugh

Thanks SarahAr, your condemnation is noted.

What is cotton ceiling please?

What is cotton ceiling please?

You know when a woman just won't get her knickers off for your 'lady penis'? That.

They run courses on pushing through this cotton ceiling you know...

What is cotton ceiling please?

Essentially, corrective rape.

Well that's no surprise is it. In other news bears shit in woods.

There's a cotton ceiling evidence thread on here. Also, just google for "cisbian".

You do realise, OP, don't you, that every time TRAs refuse to condemn homophobia, you're shooting yourself in the foot?

The dirty little issue of the cotton ceiling, that has been brushed under the carpet, may have been highlighted a little too soon for Stonewalls taste, but there it is.

Framing lesbianism as anti-trans really, really is not going to fly for long.

If only the info on the leaflets was "myths and lies" eh?

Cos you know what? I'm no genius but when I see something inmy social media that I suspect may be fake news it doesn't take me more than a few minutes to google it and check out the background.

Can't understand why more people aren't doing this and seeing that actually some of this stuff has happened, is happening.

Cos you know what? Wouldn't it have been great if some of these organisations and spokespeople had said "we condemn the actions of the transactivists who have done and said these things to lesbians, they don't speak for us. We think the protest at Pride was out of order but we can see why they may have felt it was necessary"?

But they haven't, to (wo)man they have yelled "Transphobe" and tried to belittle these lesbians' lived experiences, pretend this stuff could never happen (except that it has).

I really don't understand how many people can't see what is happening right in front of them. It's a scary world we live in, for sure.

Anyone, either on this thread or lurking, who is not sure what the cotton ceiling is, here are some threads which should explain it.

It refers to the gusset in a woman's knickers. Specifically lesbians. And it's a play on the glass ceiling. Something to be broken through.

Planned parenthood ran a workshop for transwomen on how to break through the cotton ceiling. I.e. the knickers of lesbians.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3251545-The-Silencing-of-the-Lesbians

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3146166-Transactivism-and-the-lesbian-community

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3199220-Lesbians-and-the-Trans-debate

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3245981-The-erasure-of-lesbians-by-the-transcult-How-to-have-lesbian-sex-with-a-transwoman-NSFW

If you're wondering why lesbians are targeted it's about those transwomen who are attracted to women. They can't date straight women, because straight women don't date 'women'.

So they want to date lesbians, as it validates the fact that they themselves are women, but they also get to have sex with women.

It's nothing if not logical. As long as you completely disregard sexual orientation.

Oh my god, awful. Thanks for the links. I would now nothing if not for mumsnet on this.

A guy on twitter yesterday said if you [a lesbian] meet someone and fancy them and then find out they have a penis and decide you then don't fancy them, you're transohobic... What!?!! The funny thing was he was tweeting as if he was spelling out the complete obvious!

"But I am a lesbian, and like the vast majority of women loving women I know, I am not erased by the existence of trans people. I am enriched...To these protesters I say simply: you do not speak for me, you do not speak for my friends, you do not speak for our community and you do not speak for DIVA. Take your hate elsewhere. "

www.divamag.co.uk/Diva-Magazine/News/Their-behaviour-was-shocking-and-disgusting-and-we-condemn-it-completely/

''tyrannies happen because ordinary people are surprisingly willing to do tyranny’s dirty work.''

kottke.org/16/11/five-steps-to-tyranny

This piece from the Economist this week is well worth a read on this issue: www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/03/the-gender-identity-movement-undermines-lesbians

Highly recommend reading the whole series but Kathleen Stock and Kristina Harrison are two not to miss.

mikado1

It's quite extraordinary how men can say with, not just a straight face, but a genuinely clear conscience, that a woman's sexual orientation is simply immaterial when it comes to his entitlement to sex.

I'd like to see them try that with men.

SarahAr

Are Diva really condoning the sexual harassment of lesbians?

How extraordinary of them.

Are they willing to say, publicly, that a lesbian is not a female homosexual?

Again, quite extraordinary. Or perhaps some naughty little person hasn't actually given them the full story.

The full story that sexual orientation is a protected characteristic under the law. Defined as same sex attraction.

Are Diva, really coming out in complete defiance of the equality law that specifically protects lesbians?

Dear me.

"But I am a lesbian, and like the vast majority of women loving women I know, I am not erased by the existence of trans people. I am enriched...To these protesters I say simply: you do not speak for me, you do not speak for my friends, you do not speak for our community and you do not speak for DIVA. Take your hate elsewhere."

Because most of the funding in LGBT comes from the T. It's blindingly obvious what's going on with her and fellow maiden Ruth Hunt.

Are they willing to say, publicly, that a lesbian is not a female homosexual?

Linda Riley like this tweet pictured, so yes.

If someone, anyone, says "...but I am a lesbian", how on earth are you supposed to know whether they are a lesbian, or a male bodied transwoman, with a female penis?

Any lesbian who comes out in support of sexually harassing lesbians, could easily be one of the perpetrators, rather than the victims.

This is why words matter.

From the Diva mag link:

*Pride in London went on to explain that they could not "forcibly remove" the group as "their protest was not a criminal offence".

It is unfortunate they have chosen not to condemn the homophobia and misogyny, the verbal abuse or throwing of bottles.
There are nine protected characteristics under the EA and it would be a smart idea if the self styled LGBT organizations took note of the misogyny and homophobia among their leadership.

Linda Riley like this tweet pictured, so yes.

I can almost feel the beginning of the tectonic plate shift that is about to happen when TWAW is put to this test.

The removal of sexual orientation, was always going to be a huge hurdle in the TWAW rhetoric.

Activists are frantically trying to fudge it by calling lesbianism 'anti-trans' without actually mentioning lesbianism.

The cat's out of the bag, now. It will be interesting to see how this shakes down.

I honestly can't see either the general public, or most gays and lesbians agreeing that sexual orientation is no longer a thing.

Just to say, some of us middle-aged straight women, mothers, are with lesbians all the way. Brilliant, the Pride lesbian protest! Huge respect to those women

A biological man cannot ever be a lesbian, no matter how they dress and behave. Why can't men just bloody accept this?