Trans Children in their own words.

[CosmicCanary]

So there is a piece in the DM this morning about Mermaids and a recent trans prom they held.

The DM interviewed 9 children about their trans identity and what it means to them and how it started.

These are some of the childrens comments:

15 yo who was brought up by mum and nan since the age of 1.
Started blockers at 12 years old.
I liked to wear princess outfits from the age of 2
When I was 6 mum let me experiment wearing girls clothes
I'd get panicky if a teacher called me he
I wore glittery silver shoes

17 yo who lives with mum and dad who are Christians and 2 sisters.
Puberty felt wrong. I was very unhappy I tried to kill myself many times
I feel my breasts are a useless encumbrance
It was so liberating to go the the prom and wear what I wanted
A gay man had been thrown out of our church

16 yo lives with mum and dad. Parents were reluctant but blockers started at 14 years old.
When I was 4 I was in a fancy dress parade and forced to wear a bikini with a stuffed bra
When I was 6 at a party my friends were all putting on make up I hid so I did not have to join in
When I was 4 I wanted to be a boy
Aged 11 I saw a magician on tv and wanted to wear a suit like his I went on the internet and knew I was trans

15 yo lives with mum dad and sister. Mum is Christian.
To start with I thought I was gay so did my mum she found it difficult to reconcile her faith but then I learnt about transgender
We go shopping together now
I am getting blockers

16 yo lives with mum dad and siblings.
I hated dresses and always wore jeans
I was hysterical at the thought of starting puberty
I wore sports bras and bound my chest and cut my hair short
When I was 12 I realised I was trans
My brain is a boy and my body is feminine

17 yo lives with mum.
At 12 I said to a friend I hated the fact I am a girl. I want to be a boy
I looked it up and realised I am trans and want to change my body
Puberty was horrible I was repulsed by it
This prom waa great I did not have to worry what my body looked like

11 yo lives with mum and dad. Dad is muslim.
I was happy when mum bought me a doll when I was 4
I didnt want to wear trousers
I always like knitting singing and dancing
I socially transitioned at 9
I love sparkly things

13 yo lives with mum dad twin sister and 2 older siblings.
The prom was great and I was able to be myself
My school is accepting and inclusive
I knew from a young age I was different

The things that stand out the most for me is that for those born female it is about their body changing. Their breasts growing and puberty causing them distress. They just want to wear trousers and have short hair.

For those born male its about sparkles and glitter. Potentially their sexuality maybe causing them distress due to their parents religion and social views.

I dont think any of these children are trans and I dont think puberty blockers should be given to 12 year olds.

...they would all agree that coming into puberty as a female in a sexist society IS horrible.

This. So much this.
As an early developer, puberty came as a huge shock. It felt like I went from being treated like a child to being seen as sex object overnight.
I read a woman recently saying that the majority of sexual harassment she received was between the ages of 11 and 18, and that was absolutely my experience too.
Puberty is bloody hard for girls. But it's not their bodies that are the problem, it's men and how they treat young girls.

MinaPaws totally agree with all of that especially around the DM I am sad that they still needed to use before and after photos and I am proud of the young people in. being confident in who they are. to allow that to happen.

Cosmic Canary as just stated this is the DM they are not interested in.properly talking to the young people about how they see themselves or the underlying reasons for it they are wanting to do what they feel is a positive article for balance given all the other stuff they write about us all the media outlets like to show they are balanced with such articles

You can see why this ideology is so appealing to capitalism, can't you? Impose gendered expectations on children to render them into nicely delineated market segments, then create a whole new industry and new market segments for any children who can't quite manage to be a good little consumer under the original set of gendered expectations. To make sure nobody notices, add in a new religion banging on about non-existent gender identities.

The comments in my OP are from trans children.
They talk only of clothing, glitter, sparkles, short hair and for the females hating the changes that puberty brings to their body.

That the problem no one seems to be addressing. Male transchildren become happier when allowed to wear 'girl' clothes and take part in 'girls' activities. Female transchildren are happier when they bind their breasts.

The comments show a tendency towards gender stereotypes.

I find it baffling that in this day and age, children are being encouraged to undergo invasive and permanent medical procedures, rather than embrace the fact that gender stereotypes are harmful and you can be free to wear what you want, like what you want and call yourself what you want, without feeling like your body is "wrong".

And again, I am horrified to see the nonsense being peddled about puberty blockers being completely reversible - which is simply not true.

I appreciate the DM does not have a good reputation but I found the article to be supportive of trans children and no hint of a negative spin.
Do you think the comnents made by the children have been manipulated or changed by the newpaper Bespin?

I think the childrens comments are very interesting and highlight how a lot of children and teens feel about their bodies and their place in society.

I will not dismiss what they have said simply because it is a DM article.

The emphasis in modern culture around sexual attractiveness and the focus on altering the body to achieve that is very damaging for girls. Look at all the girls who are not experiencing 'gender dysphoria' but ARE experiencing body dysmorphia and altering their faces and bodies as a result. And what is the 'look' they go for? Something that's achievable by transgender people like PL

What is deemed sexually attractive for young women is, to my eyes, the look of a transvestite.

That the problem no one seems to be addressing. Male transchildren become happier when allowed to wear 'girl' clothes and take part in 'girls' activities. Female transchildren are happier when they bind their breasts.

How is it not being addressed?
Do you believe you must label a child trans because of their choice un clothibg ir activity?
Do you see how that kind of thinking only supports the idea that all girls like pink and all boys like football.
It is oppressive and damaging.

Cosmic Canary no I. don't think they have been minipulated I just don't think they will have asked the questions. it will have been questions around prom and looking nice for it and how they feel about it.
the article is about prom and unfortunately there are still a large number of schools in this country who will not let people wear. what they feel comfortable in to a prom these young trans people just want to experience what everyone else gets too. maybe you can all fight for schools to allow young people to wear what they want to prom because the reality and the reason this prom happened is because of that

The point DS very coherently made to me is that these people are suffering profound mental distress. They are very like to die young from suicide or murder. They are exceptionally open to physical attack and violent abuse. It's vitally important that no one on MN is seen to condone or dismiss that as meh-not-my-problem. It's a huge issue.

There are a couple of key points which seem rarely discussed publically.

There are a number of recognised commonalities in groups of young people who have a higher than average risk of self harm / suicide ideation and risk eg those who have been refugees, those who have experienced abuse, looked after children, those with emotional mental health issues, those who are bullied etc.

Advocates for better services for these groups of young people do not quote the statistics. Those proffessionals working with them would face serious questions if they did.

It is almost impossible to find an article or listen to an interview by an advocate for trans rights who does not mention the high suicide statistics for childen / young people. What would be the effect of this on the vulnerable young person questioning their gender identity?

The 'contagion' effects of online communities on young people (especially females) with regards anorexia are well established.

Samaritans have long established guidance about the risks of discussing suicide on those who may be vulnerable.
(the Independent article I linked previously describes methods of self harm and suicide attempts and yet does not have the usual link to Samaritans, young people's MH support lines as one would expect. Only Mermaids. Why is that?)

The 'clustering' of self harm amongst young people was understood well many years ago.

cf Guardian Article:

"This rise is reflected in referrals to the children’s Gender Identity Development Service (Gids), run by the Tavistock and Portman NHS trust, which increased by 1,978% – from 97 in 2009 to 2,016 in 2016-17. Of those children, 70% are biologically female.

Bernadette Wren, a clinical psychologist at Gids, says many young people seen by the service have been bullied or self-harm, and a number are on the autistic spectrum."
Also:
"Adele Robinson (not her real name), a head of year at a secondary school, shares Davies-Arai’s worries. The school has had 12 children, all girls, come out as transgender in the past 18 months. The majority, she says, have autism, and some have experienced sexual abuse.

When they come out, she says, they have brought in information sourced from Tumblr blogs and YouTube videos. Although her team does its best to “support every child in a loving, kind and compassionate way”, she feels that staff are too frightened to challenge what she sees as harmful practices: “We have chest binders worn in school, which is horrible. If a child was cutting, they would be straight in with a counsellor. Yet damaging developing breast tissue goes unquestioned. It’s a gross failure in terms of child protection.”

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

also most of they young trans people I have known don't like all that getting dressed up for prom stuff anyway but some of them do and for them it is importent as it is for other young people

Thanks bespin

September 17 scientific American had a pice on trans children that was probably better than the DM. As a result I think that some children are trans in a way that is not to do with sterotypes. I have yet to meet such a child.

children may find it difficult to express themselves except in simplistic sterotypical terms. But in such cases I would say they are too immature for body mutilation

how do you all feel about Barnardo’s support of young trans people? no one seems to talk about them on. here

being transgender is only partly about bodily dysmorphia and even with all of the treatment that can still not go away as this is about believing your gender is wrong and not your body though it is often linked as your body does play a big part in defining who you are.

Bespin
Can you explain a bit more about what you mean here? In particular what you mean by believing your gender is wrong and not your body?

The article was about prom but some of the childrens comments were about dressing in a princess dress aged 2 and being forced to wear a padded bikini aged 4. Or seeing a magician in a suit aged 11.

3 years ago my 11 DS went to prom in trousers and a powder pink bow tie and waistcoat. My 11 DD will be going to hers in a suit as that whats she has chosen. School could not care less tbh.

As a religious parent, I feel impressed to point out that not all religious parents buy into this regressive straitjacket of gender expectations. I am horrified at the mother who had a problem with a gay child and then the child 'discovered' transgender and now they go shopping together.

I have a gender non conforming child, and I also have a gay daughter. I am about as devout a Catholic as you're likely to come across, and I have never, ever been disappointed in my children, except perhaps when they've left tissues in their jeans for the umpteenth time.

Everything I do with my kids is about them being happy in their own skin, which I believe was gifted to them by God, and I am appalled that a mother would be so homophobic that she would prefer her child to go on heavy duty meds that stunted growth and development and very likely sterilized them, to having a gay child.

minapaws

The point DS very coherently made to me is that these people are suffering profound mental distress. They are very like to die young from suicide or murder. They are exceptionally open to physical attack and violent abuse.

Would you mind asking your ds his source for these statements - that they are exceptionally open to physical attack and violent abuse?

I hear this said a lot but find it difficult to find the source/statistics behind it. (I'm assuming he meant UK rather than world wide)

MIdgebabe well I have meet a lot of them and a lot of non binary young people who do not want any medical intervention infact nearly half of the young poeple in out group at one point were non binary.

Hating puberty and self harm isn't that unusual, and certainly shouldn't be medicated away with puberty blockers. IMO those kids haven't been supported properly at all.

here. ya go Acorninspring

www.stonewall.org.uk/school-report-2017

Comments were open on this article when I first saw it late last night - I wonder why they are now closed?

Ditch the label also have a study highlighting the causes of bullying
www.ditchthelabel.org/research-papers/the-annual-bullying-survey-2017/

Its interesting to see that their study shows that from 10,000 participants (all children) these were the percentages.

50% bullued for their apperence.
40% bullied because of their hobbies interests.
19% bullied for good grades.
11% bullied for attitudes for my percieved gender.
4% bullied for their sexuality.

I consider Stonewall to have a damaging agenda and dont feel their survay is as comprehensive or as varied as the one I have linked.
I am sure you will disagree with me though Bespin

I would imagine it's because TRAs have put kids on the frontline there, and quite rightly there is a desire to protect those children from the kind of verbal that they might get from your average commenter on the DM website.
Which is, of course, a tactic itself - hide behind brave, stunning ( hugely confused) kids and push your narrative in such a way that you are shielded from the critique of your entirely fucked up worldview.

They are very like to die young from suicide or murder. They are exceptionally open to physical attack and violent abuse.

Sadly, anyone who is a bit "different" can become a victim of physical attack - this is not limited to people with a different gender presentation. This is a completely different issue from the ethics around the transitioning of chldren.

The suicide stats are based around very small, self-selected sample of young people, and as R0wantrees said, the reporting on this is reckless and does not follow the Samaritans' guidelines.

Only a handful of transgender people have ever been murdered in the UK. Previous mumsnet thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3080711-UK-transgender-murder-rate