Can you explain to me what a cis woman is? Am I one?

[WaitrosePigeon]

Sorry, this must sound stupid. I’m confused as to what cis woman means. I was born female. I’m just a woman aren’t I?

@heresyandwitchcraft thank you so much. That makes it a lot more clear.

This forum has really helped me clarify my own beliefs, which need not become anyone else's. There's still a lot to learn, I may change my opinions, but being able to debate and benefit from the collective wisdom on here is wonderful.

aunt

Op has said she does not think she is a ciswoman

It would be nice to honour how she identifies

Goodness, some people do like to tell others how they identify.

And, it's not ok to be "c*s" for many women, as for women it means you're totally ok with the second class role that goes with that particular gender identity. No thanks.

Exclusionary is preventing someone living fully because of their characteristics

So, calling someone blind is not exclusionary to non blind people, it's a fact. It's a useful fact as we may then want to change something so that the blind person can participate fully, for example by describing a graph in words.

Calling a woman woman is not exclusionary to men. Again the word woman is both factual and useful because we use it to ensure women can participate fully. Perhaps by having a single sex changing room or women only sports.

Woman is not the name of a club.

No. You're a cis woman. I'm a cis woman. It's okay to be cis.

No one is stopping you from labelling yourself however you wish. We are stopping you from labelling other women against their wishes.

I really hope you can see the difference, otherwise there really is no hope.

Goodness, some people do like to tell others how they identify.

Don't they just. It's almost as if they are enjoying telling women they have a label they reject.

There is hope. Lots of people get it. There will always be people who can't or won't understand things because it interferes with their goals.

Sorry, I meant no hope for the poster who labelled other women as “c**” and didn’t see what the problem was.

I cannot answer your question, because my post saying that you are indeed a See-Eye-Ess woman was deleted. Apparently, you are allowed to ask if you are one, but I am censored from saying that you are.

I use a very similar religious analogy to Somedyke in my rejection of ‘cis’.

I’m atheist. This is a neutral term to describe my lack of belief in god/s. Theists have other words that mean similar - heathen, sinner, apostate, etc. A theist may choose to describe my lack of belief using words taken from their belief system - I cannot stop them doing so. However, I will not be coerced into labelling myself with the words of their belief system. I do not have any reference point within their belief system.

Same logic for ‘cis’. It’s a word born out of belief in gender identity. It does not describe a person who is outside that belief system.

but I am censored from saying that you are.

Why should you get to assume the identity of others? Isn't that what you and your friends disagree with? Let's have some semblance of consistency and a coherent position at least.

@AuntMsVanillaRose

Do you accept that you can’t tell people they are cis? Or do you think MNHQ have it wrong?

Apparently, you are allowed to ask if you are one, but I am censored from saying that you are.

Read the guidelines and then you should be less confused.

Aunt, op is a woman. Not a cis woman.

Glad to have cleared that up for you :)

Apparently, you are allowed to ask if you are one, but I am censored from saying that you are

Not quite right but i can see why you are struggling...

If OP asked the question then you are quite obviously allowed to say 'i think by what you say that you may be....' you can also say 'if someone is ab or c then they are a cis woman'

What you are not allowed to aay TO SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY SAID 'I AM NOT A CISWOMAN' is ' you are a ciswoman'

From the screenshot it sounds as though you've engaged with MNHQ on this issue before, AuntMs. That you'll be 'disappointed' by their refusal to let you apply terms others reject to them. Perhaps you could attempt to explain (without referring to anyone else on this thread) why you think it's so important to impose this unnecessary fake-back derivation on any woman let alone those who reject the constraints of 'gender identity'?

I’ve been reading through your messages and reading a lot online.

I reject the term cis. I’m just ‘woman’.

I see there's a thread titled 'See-Eye-Something' deleted as a TAAT. As this thread shows, there is no problem at all putting 'cis' in a title and using it in the subsequent discussion. Why would anyone imply it isn't?

We don't do #nodebate here. If you've got a defensible case, by all means present it.

Funny when all this nonsense started I thought it was 'sis' as in sister. Which is what my siblings call each other (apart from 'bro' obviously).

It's nicer when my siblings call me sis. They mean it in a nice way.

Apparently, you are allowed to ask if you are one, but I am censored from saying that you are

Exactly. Excellent work.

Always very satisfying when someone gets it.

And that song just won't scan anymore...

'Cause I'm a womaaaaan
W - O - M - A - N
I'll say it again...'

You know the proposal for Self ID?

Well how come women are not allowed to self ID?

Go on enlighten me.

Whilst you twist yourself in linguistic knots about the how's and whys about why it's so important to trans people but really unimportant to the well being and sense of self of people who are not trans, I'm going to have a cup of tea and marvel at how they got those four boys out of the cave in Thailand.

Seriously a women is just a flaming woman. No prefix necessary unless you are trying to put a woman 'in her place' and say she has no right to her own identity.

Red 👏 👏 👏