Can you explain to me what a cis woman is? Am I one?

[WaitrosePigeon]

Sorry, this must sound stupid. I’m confused as to what cis woman means. I was born female. I’m just a woman aren’t I?

And if for any reason we're discussing chemistry I certainly will use cis if applicable. Cis fatty acids are good for you.

Now I fell into a PeachYoghurt hole! Thanks MrsFogi!

Compliant Individual Signalling

Also, I agree with previous posters - Sarah there are literally 100 messages on this thread discussing the topic. Hardly a censored subject..

Trans and cis are chemistry terms for isomers.
We use trans for 'across' when we speak of things like the trans continental railroad and transoceanic.
We do not use cis in language to mean on this side of the ocean.
Genderists at some point decided that if they wanted to argue that transwoman is a subset of women instead of men they needed to make women a subset also. They invented the concept cis for the purpose.
The claim is that cis women identify with their gender role. Problem is that most of us want our effing gender role to eff the eff off because we do not identify with it at all. We don't identify with it because it is an invention of men to maintain the dominance/submission paradigm which we reject.

Interestingly, Alison Moyet was on twitter yesterday absolutely rejecting cis as a descriptor of herself but she also says TW are Women so she was getting grief from both sides .

If you go by Stonewall's definition then we are all Trans.

As you were.

"No trans men are saying 'men and cis-men' though are they? They wouldn't dare!"

That's just not true though TellsEveryone. They, and others, do use the term cis man. I don't understand why this myth keeps coming up here when it is so patently untrue.

'cis woman' is rather a disgusting term to describe a woman, a female. It means you are 'aligned' to the 'gender role' of woman (as in second class citizen, in effect, a Surrendered Wife model of womanhood).

It's a far bigger insult than the Telling Everyone Real Facts acronym. Which I laugh at, being rather stupid and all.

No, 'cis woman' is definitely a "shut the fuck up woman, recognise your second class citizenship".

Which is why we have... feminism.

Cis simply means not trans. It's really not that difficult, is it?

Have you not read the many clear explanations of why it's not that simple? How arrogant to just drop that onto the end of this thread without considering what others have explained.

Cis simply means not trans. It's really not that difficult, is it?

Yes, I'm sure people like Piers Morgan are delighted to know that they are defined as 'not a woman who identifies as a man'.

Cis (short for cisgender) is an inoffensive term for a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex.
Ridiculous to get het up about it.

Oh look. People telling women to shut up, and that they are transphobic bigots for having a different opinion. How unusual.

WidowWadman

And

llangennith

They're also banned terms on here. You are breaking talk guidelines. Three strikes and you're out.

cis short for cisgender is. It an offensive term

But it is an offsenive term. It has been used offsenivly by many people such that it has become offensive even if people use it without that intent. So even if you haven't come across it used in that way please try to accept that. dont tell me that it has never been used in that way or that I shouldn't care when people are absuive to me.

Further It excludes women who do not have a gender identity. I feel a loop coming on. And if you want to be precise about people's gender then you will need at least 70 different terms. Not just trans and cis.

Also woman means of the female sex with female socialisation . It is a very useful word with a good definition that matches well with what most people understdnthe word to mean.

Cis and trans are applied to the word women as adjectives. Yet in that case a transwoman should be a woman who identifies as a man. Exactly the opposite of how the term is used. to try to force women to accept men as women.

Oops misssed a not in the first line quote there!

lasqrrl can you say what you consider cis man to mean under your interpretation?

can you say what you consider cis man to mean under your interpretation?

It means 'Oh shit, we have to pretend that we consider men to also be cis to make it look less like we are trying to align all women with the stereotypes that patriarchy foists upon them. Also makes us look slightly less rapey'.

... and it means we can maintain that men are a subset of women when we apply it to women.

Cis-gender has been used in the discussion of feminism and gender identity for well over a decade it is neutral language, but mumsnet, and only mumsnet have chosen to ban it.

www.alternet.org/story/93826/rethinking_sexism%3A_how_trans_women_challenge_feminism

The word n*+r was used to describe some people for centuries. It is not neutral though Is It?

It's a made up word that applies to noone but Stepford wives (if female). No women identifies with Society's idea of how a woman should be.

Neutral! Ha, thats funny. Of course it's not a neutral term.

Argh, are we still on this?

You say that you, and everyone else, has an absolute right to "define your own gender/pronouns/terms of address." You say these should absolutely be respected. That mis-labeling is terribly offensive.

Guess what, friend. That must apply to me, too. Or else what you're really saying is that it's okay to mis-label only me. That my internal identity is the only one we will treat as invalid. If that's so, then you're being discriminatory and bullying me.

Here it is:
I have no "internal sense of gender identity"
I do not, in any way, feel any connection to the "feminine gender role"
Therefore, I have nothing to "align" with my sex
So I cannot be "cis"
I'm simply a female who knows that I cannot change the reproductive organs I was born with and is dealing with socialised expectations the best I can

I would hope you wouldn't force to believe in Jesus if they weren't Christian. So please stop trying to force me to accept being defined in your terms. I do not have a gender identity. I do not share your ideology.

Use "cis" if you want. But not for me or anyone else who refuses it. It is not how we define ourselves. Please stop mis-labelling us.

'Cis' isn't banned on MN (heck, we're on a whole thread about it). The relevant part of the guidelines is:

That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions.

If you want to call yourself cis, fine. If you insist on applying it to someone who rejects the constraints of 'gender identity', then you're being inflammatory.

It's not a neutral term. It's an ideologically driven back construction which is equivalent to talking about a cisplanted heart.