Can you explain to me what a cis woman is? Am I one?

[WaitrosePigeon]

Sorry, this must sound stupid. I’m confused as to what cis woman means. I was born female. I’m just a woman aren’t I?

Here's a useful analogy. Religion.

Classification using a tree (I like to be able to formalise things!). So FIRST quesiton, do you believe in god(s) Y/N?
Atheisists, on one branch, all believers on t'other. Then you can get specific as to which god, various sects and sub-divisions. And so on.
Labelling everyone who isn't on your (religious) branch by a particular name (like the damned) is usually seen as quite rude. And actually, not a particularly useful way of naming things, since it makes no distinction between those who might be 'quite close' to you, just the slightly wrong sect (splitters!), or those who are quite far away, like the atheists.

As regards sex/gender identity, the first split should be do you believe in/have a gender identity or not. Then for those who do let then talk about whether it aligns with their sex or not (although given the multiplicity of gender identities at the moment a simple Y/N at this point doesn't really capture the complexity either!). Trying to label everyone who isn't on your particular trans branch as cis isn't a very useful categorization. Like religion, makes more sense for that local point of view, rather a wider one? As atheist is rather more accurate than non-nuggan, non-pastafarian etc etc..............

So if you are born with the female anatomy but are not especially feminine in your choice of clothes, hairstyle, body language, you are also called 'cis'?

No, I think if you didn't fit the stereotype you'd then be called non-binary & taken under Stonewall's trans umbrella. The gender stereotypes are that restrictive.

Is there a reason trans activists chose to call women "cis women" instead of "natal women"?

Because that would imply that TRA's weren't natal women & they find that unacceptable.

Op you are a cis woman.

Blimey, do you go around informing everyone how they should identify themselves.

Or is it just female women?

”What a complete load of bullshit. I've spent my whole fucking life (over 50 years of it) rebelling against "the gender expression that society deems appropriate for that body", ever since I first told a teacher I wanted to play cricket with the boys, not rounders with the girls. Doesn't make me a man. It makes me a woman (no fucking "cis" needed) who recognises gender for the oppressive pile of shite it is.”

Applauds @FermatsTheorem!!

I like wearing skirts, the colour pink, knitting, sewing and crochet, and I was a nurse, then at university I was a concert standard mezzo soprano - though now I reside more in the tenor range, but I have short hair, almost never wear make up, and am passionate about road race cycling and rugby. I was observed to be female at birth, have menstruated, borne children and breastfed. I have a cervix. I don’t see which of the rigid gender stereotype boxes that are at the heart of trans activism I fit into. I don’t want to fit into any box, apart from the one marked SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius.

Oh - and since this whole thing rests on how a person ‘feels’, and it is ‘literal violence’ to deny how a person feels,

I feel that I am a woman. I do not feel like a ciswoman or a cis woman. I feel that calling me cis IS misgendering me, and is therefore, by the TRA mantra, literal violence against me. I will call you whatever you wish to be called, and all I ask is that I am afforded the same respect.

Very good point SDTG

(I always worry that someone's sat there going 'well what about my very good point you bitch')

They have been lots of good points

with the gender expression that society deems appropriate for that body

Oh look! I'm trans!

The recent pride march in sanfran had a banner that said "women and cis women".

So woman now means penis and cis means... Er...

A woman who defines herself as cis is a woman who agrees with her own oppression.

notmeohno SO given many of us are actually trans, what worries us as trans people?

For me two things are important

First when I am , not being treated as other men. Such as being talked over, getting paid less.

And then, my sex being used agaiant me. Rape, intimidation, that kind of thing. For this I see sex segregation as a great solution. That allows me to be myself and my preferred genr fully without worrying about what transgender or other people who do not share my sex are up to

I understand some transpeople like me are also worried about then abilitynof transpeople to participate fully in sport. Again I can see that sex segregation would help.

Should I propose this to stonewall ?

TellsEveryone "So only to define women then - no such thing as CIS men? Why is that?"

No, it's used in the context of cis men and trans men as well. I'd omitted that from my first post because the OP asked about cis women specifically.

@ThinkingCat "SuperDandy I am new to this debate and I found your post helpful"

Thank you, that's one of the reason I keep posting here as a balance to the more intense GC viewpoints.

For cis woman, my understanding is it's born with female anatomy and not wanting to identify as male or non binary or some other variation of trans

It's not a term that has to do with femininity at all as far as I am aware, and Ives never encountered it used in that way other than here on this board as a sort of reductio ad absurdum argument.

"b) some people think the term is being used an insult, some people find the term insulting in itself, and some people find it useful in distinguishing between a 'trans' woman and category 2) above"
Yup, you've got it.

placemats no, I don't understand what part of my post you think is wrong, or what you mean by posters like you. That's why I asked. If you don't want to explain that's up to you of course. It's only a problem insofar as it makes it hard to have a conversation if you just say you're wrong then don't want to say why.

A woman who defines herself as cis is a woman who agrees with her own oppression.

YY

No, it's used in the context of cis men and trans men as well

No trans men are saying 'men and cis-men' though are they? They wouldn't dare!

Everyone knows the difference between women and trans women - even if they are too scared to ever mention it.

I have a response to "cis" that I have used on other social media that if I were to use it under the new rules here would get me deleted. I'm thinking it though!

Everyone knows the difference between women and trans women - even if they are too scared to ever mention it.

It articulates this very accurate point in a succinct way which would no doubt be considered goady.

'The prefixes "cis" and "trans" are from Latin: "this side of" and "the other side of", respectively'

There are many common words with the prefix 'trans' - transplant, transport, transsubstantiation, transmogrify, transpennine (railway) ... the trans- tends to be denoting change. Note that in normal language we simply don't need cis. I don't have a cisplanted heart. A traffic jam or parking lot isn't a cisport system. A piece of bread which is still bread hasn't undergone cissubstantiation. We don't call the railways which don't go over t'hills cispennine.

'Ciswoman' is a totally unnecessary false backconstruction from 'transwoman' by analogy with the technical uses of these prefixes.

Zeeboo

I'm old enough not to give a flying fuck about whether 'society deems my gender expression to be appropriate for my body'. It has nothing to do with society whether I play with chainsaws or wear high heels. Are you saying that society decides if I am trans? Is there an official list somewhere of how I should behave in order to qualify as cis. I certainly have no innate sense of being male or female. Hey, perhaps I'm neither and giving birth was by immaculate conception.

Don't you see what an unraveling steaming pile of nonsensical horseshit this whole ideology is?

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I’ve read each and every one of them and it is absolutely clear that I am just ‘woman’.

There is in my opinion..

Woman
Man
Transwoman
Transman

I am not allowed to discuss it. It is a banned word for MN according to the guidelines. All I can say is that it is an academic term and point you to this link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender.

I am not allowed to discuss it. It is a banned word for MN according to the guidelines

Do you understand why it's offensive?

Cross post, perhaps watch Peach Yoghurt's video Sarah.

I am not allowed to discuss it.

Dont talk bollocks

The thread is full of people discussing it

Unless you mean just you are not allowed...

A woman who defines herself as cis is a woman who agrees with her own oppression.

The best way to think of it is how @LaSqrrl brilliantly puts it. Compliant Individual Signalling

The relevant section of the guidelines
*
That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions.*

Context is everything, I think it's using cis, applying it to a feminist which is banned, not discussing it.