Can we talk about the mental impact of being told the definition of woman is changing?

[UglyCathKidstonBag]

I’d like to hear specifically from women who feel their mental health has been in any way impacted by being told the definition of “woman” has or will change so that it either excludes them or includes men. Has anyone felt their mental health has been impacted by the “erasure” of woman.

I have long term therapy as part of treatment for PTSD and GAD both of which are centred around abuse from various men in my life. I had been able to control both to a manageable state thanks to this treatment until the past 3-6 months.
I am now unable to use places such as gyms, swimming pools, changing rooms and similar settings because of my fear of being in intimate spaces with unknown male bodied people. This is now starting to have a knock on impact for my work.

Bobby Darvo

AS a coach - of what?

Independent, within a corporation, within/on behalf of a charitable organisation?

Anyway, vickyjgo - I responded to your lie that since the GRA there have been "no problems" by offering you an immediate example of such a problem.

I asked you if that made a difference to you - surely it does now that you've seen the "lie" your TRA friends have sold you?

AS a coach

I bet bending your mind to lie about biology has been quite the journey. Do you have a toilet on your coach? They tend to get quite full of excrement too.

As a long vehicle with many seats traditionally used for school trips. It's what the poster identifies as.

I am outraged by the way the meaning of the word ‘woman’ has been changed.

It reminds me of the way the Nazis changed the meaning of the word ‘human’

...the proposed changes to the act will allow anyone - without the need for any medical gatekeeping - to claim they're a woman and access any and all women's spaces? Or are you just peddling the 'nothing to fear' lie we keep getting sold?

Having the legal status of a woman does not grant trans women access to any and all women's spaces. Access to women's spaces is genearlly controlled (i.e. the right to sue for discrimination) by the Equality Act and is given to those with the protected characteristic of "gender reassignment" subject to some exceptions. Access to the female prison estate is controlled by the guidelines drawn up by the NOMS subject to a human rights backstop.

Our concern (and again, I'm asking you to pay attention) is that there are several hundred thousand people with a range of conditions and/or fetishes AND men who are simply predatory and they can all enter safe spaces with no challenge possible if the changes to the GRA happen

This is not the case. Even if these men were to sign a false statutory declaration, this would not give them the right or ability to enter safe spaces.

Ireland has introduced legal self-id by way of statutory instrument. Have 10 000 men in Ireland changed their birth certificate to female to abuse the system (scaling the numbers down due to smaller population size)? No, just 297 individuals have changed their legal gender. Scaling by population size the number who have changed their gender in Ireland under self-id is roughly the same as who have changed their gender under the UK's medicolegal process.

But I'll take you up on your "And there have been no problems" claim. Here's one:

Regarding trans women prisoners. The prison authorities have to balance trans women's right to be kept on the female estate with the risk to other prisoners. Normally they get it right; sadly in this case they didn't. This is a similar dilema to the probation service who have to balance granting parole versus the risk to the community.

Sexual assaults against women in women's prisons do happen. For example this 2016 paper from the Howard League howardleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Women_in_prison_sex_commission.pdf documents consensual and coercive sex. It highlights the recorded rates of sexual assault in women's prisons is the same as in men's prisons when corrected for population. It also talks about women on women sexual violence (e.g. the horrific act of "De-Crutching"). No mention is made of the risk posed by trans women. The assumption must be that it is de minimis.

If MNers were really concerned about the risk of sexual assualt in women's prisons, they would not be campaigning against the GRA reform (which has no bearing on this risk); they would be campaigning against "De-Crutching".

Sadly as the OP said, the misinformation deliberately peddled by a small group of transphobic individuals is causing distress to a large number of women who believe the lies - it is also causing a lot of energy and activisim to be misdirected away from areas where it would do good.

SarahAr

This is not the case. Even if these men were to sign a false statutory declaration, this would not give them the right or ability to enter safe spaces.

Tell me - what will stop them? The person I'm arguing keeps saying transwomen are in those spaces already - so what will stop the new self-id people getting in?

Bobby Darvo

LOL!

I can’t quite believe a thread where women have come to discuss their mental health has been taken over by Followers of Genderism. Can we have no peace?

Lots of insitutions are leap frogging the law and allowing humans born male and who now identify as women to access female only spaces without any kind of transition, certificate or otherwise. This is happening.

My daughter will not be able to go to Brownies because this is happening.

I am forced at work to treat people who identify as a women, as a biological women despite every ounce of my common sense and years of training telling me otherwise. Why wouldn’t that have an impact on my mental health?

Lots of insitutions are leap frogging the law and allowing humans born male and who now identify as women to access female only spaces without any kind of transition, certificate or otherwise. This is happening.

We know, for example, that the NHS already allows people to claim a 'gender' and be treated as if they are a sex other than their birth sex, which means they can be put into women's wards.

Sadly as the OP said, the misinformation deliberately peddled by a small group of transphobic individuals is causing distress to a large number of women who believe the lies - it is also causing a lot of energy and activisim to be misdirected away from areas where it would do good.

I am the OP and said nothing of the sort.

We know, for example, that the NHS already allows people to claim a 'gender' and be treated as if they are a sex other than their birth sex, which means they can be put into women's wards.

Well yes, this is what I was referring to re my work. I have had several colleagues who have been put in some very dangerous situations as clinicians where they have been told they must treat a patient as the opposite sex to which they were born. They have refused to do so as it would be unethical and lead to the patient dying. The fact we even have to deal with the possibility of facing legal action due to something like this makes me want to walk out of the profession (again).

Can we get this thread back to the original topic of being a place for women to discuss what is happening to their mental health, rather than having Followers of Genderism trying to derail it?

How is everyone doing at the moment?

UglyCathKidstonBag

I didn't mean to imply you didn't know - I was just amplifying your comment.

In fact, the derailers make me angry and even more determined not to let the buggers put me off the issues.

I didn't mean to imply you didn't know - I was just amplifying your comment.

Oh I know

Just reading through all these posts-I think its really important to just ignore posters with a contradictory agenda-don't engage with them-they'll get bored and move on. As with posters like Snappity-just ignore them-this is not the place for them. I was very happy go lucky until I learnt about the trans agenda & what is happening in schools-the repercussions of self id are just too enormous not too be worried about. But you know-take heart in the fact we are spreading the word-there are great groups lobbying the gov't-things might not turn out so badly as we fear-I think the problems of self id are becoming evident in other countries and things will change. (I bloody hope anyway.)

Great wall of text SarahAr. Brevity thy name is not transgender activist.

I read the report you linked to with interest.

Your argument seems to boil down to

women prisoners sexually assault each other, therefore admitting rapists with penises to women's prisons is perfectly fine

The stat about the rate of sexual assaults among male and female prisoners being the same is rather irrelevant here, given that these men like to prey on women and are therefore unlikely to be contributing to the prevalence of sexual assaults among male prisoners. I also note the phrase ^Determination
of whether a particular assault is classified
as sexual is guided by the wishes of the victim.^

I wonder if they're hinting that male prisoners may shy away from categorising assaults as sexual?

If MNers were really concerned about the risk of sexual assualt in women's prisons, they would not be campaigning against the GRA reform (which has no bearing on this risk); they would be campaigning against "De-Crutching"

Ah, a false dichotomy. If you care about a you must not care about b.

they're bollocks you know.

vickyjgo "... however the reality is that transgender men and women have been in society for a very long time and the Equality Act 2010 gave anyone in the process of transitioning a protected status and access to spaces according to their gender."

This is utterly erroneous ... the EqA 2010 relates to transsexuals only not transgenders (see Section 7: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7)

and it in no way permits any transsexual [or transgender] to access any female spaces [not even public female toilets]; see the Exceptions: sisterhoodispowerful.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/a-uk-guide-for-non-lawyers-about-protecting-women-only-spaces-june-2016/

What has been happening is that these people have been violating the boundaries of females against their consent while creating confusion about exactly what the law actually means.

See also: fairplayforwomen.com/

It's entirely in the definition. Changing physiological or other aspects of sex. They could make it narrower.

What has been happening is that these people have been violating the boundaries of females against their consent while creating confusion about exactly what the law actually means.

Exactly this.

@vickyjgo don't PM me. Your comments are the nasty ones.

If you PM again I will report you.

When trans activists see how women react, they try and minimise it. They think women are overreacting.

Despite those women saying how they have been hounded off social media, and forced to lie at work to the detriment of their mental health.

Women aren't just making it up you know. They're not just listening to what the feminists on here are saying. They are experiencing things in real life.

But you know, keep on with this awful, sexist attitude that women can't think for themselves.

I, and all the other women, can plainly see what is happening. We can listen to radio programs, television interviews, read newspaper articles, interact on social media. This is happening.

We have to read, on here, the feminist board, which should be providing support for women, transactivists spout the most misogynistic drivel.

Specifically upsetting women who may be infertile or suffering from PTSD, or rape survivors. Telling women whose children are suffering from ROGD, that they, the mother, is a safeguarding risk.

This is happening now. Today.

All compounded with your baseless assertion that it isn't.

So, in answer to the OP, yes it does affect me.

And the fact that misogynistic men can come on here and feel entitled to berate woman is shameful.