Alternative Definitions of 'Woman'?

[Dragoncake]

Do you disagree with the definition of 'woman' as 'adult human female'?

If you disagree, what is your own definition of the word?

A woman is....what exactly?

Is there even a definition? Or is 'woman' simply indefinable in your view?

On the 'A Woman is an Adult Human Female' thread I asked those who disagree to provide their alternative definition of the word.

Several people engaged, but nobody seemed able to do this.

If you have one, please post your alternative definition here. Thanks.

Rat has devalued all firsts. Rat is only capable of obeying neoliberal postmodernism.

I was hoping ds1 would get a first

Ive really gone off that now

His boyfriend has a first, and although lovely has absolutely no idea how the world works lord love him. Ds1 is much more knowledgable in that respect

Barrackerbarmer I agree. It's still the 'identify' part that bothers me too.

Just want to note that in now 13 pages only three posters have responded with alternative definitions of 'woman'. Thanks again to those people.

FWR has many active, vocal non-GC posters who won't have missed this thread today.

I'm not entitled to expect their participation. But you'd think that active posters would take any opportunity to educate us. Why are they avoiding this thread but engaging on others this evening?

They can't or won't define 'woman'. Is how it seems. Although I'd be happy if they proved me wrong.

I'm not impressed by RatRolyPoly's analysis. But at least they gave us their definition. And then stuck around to try and defend it. Can't say fairer than that.

Rat has devalued all firsts.
Not the STEM ones (or any other subjects which aren't liable to become Pomo-addled).

But as bowl (who iirc has two) commented elsewhere, really you don't need more than gcse ...
tbh just normal powers of observation and common sense would do, to understand that 'woman: adult human being' is an accurate and complete definition which does not need updating.

Well I've gone right off philosophy. Respect to everyone who's stuck with this. I'll go with Wallace Stevens 'Not ideas about the thing but the thing itself'
Rat is all ideas but a glaring absence of any meaning. Or maybe 'sound and fury signyfying nothing'

Everyone knows what a woman is.

We all came out of one. (And it's fucking disrespectful to our mothers to pomo the meaning out of their material reality.)

Anything else is bullshit.

Thought experiments / philosophy / a little too much Judith Butler and not enough life experience, etc do not change that or challenge it. At all.

(I miss the gavel. There was so much less waffly meaningless crap posted on MN in those days. A woman gave you your life FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.)

Sorry been out in the lovely weather and working.

Have no problem with woman meaning adult female in relation to biology. The catagory of woman as a social and legal definition is also inclusive of that biological definition. I've the years though it as grown to include people who also identified as woman so trans woman. This at this moment in time is Widely excepted in society, due to a number of factors. Now this is a definition that is socially based so can be taken away like on here were people do not agree with the socially excepted and legal view at this time and are wanting to change it. If you are successful then that definition will change and we will lose that definition both sodially and legelly I would argue that in a binary society that would effectivly remove us from functioning as everyone else does so unless you are also arguing and fighting for an alternative non binary based society you are in effect doing this even if that's in no way your intention. In no way does any argument for or against change our biology no matter what some people might say

And it is deeply deeply misogynistic to sit around scratching one's chin musing on what a woman is.

Would you do it to any other subjugated class of people?

Would you sit around talking academic shite about the poor? "Mmm, let me see, a poor person is a human without the means to a decent standard of living or anyone who identifies as such "

Good luck heading into somewhere deprived in the real world spouting that...

All this academia is an insult to women. Real women in the real world. Yunno, the one that exists as a material reality that we all occupy (as opposed to the made up pomo / Judith Butler / 6th form essay / thought experiment Orwellian wank world that trans ideology comes from).

You want to know what a woman is?
Call your mother.

I believe the alternate definition(s) remain; women = non-men. Synonymous with sub-human. Hence a person lowering themselves to the level of women is "stunning/brave" and yet when a female attempts to "identify out of" they get invisable-ised. We only speak about trans men if they've given birth.

This idea that women is a cultural notion is plain stupid. One of the keys parts of the definition is adult. Thus maturity (of body) is essential to being a women. The terms woman/man and girl/boy exist to denote (rough) age categorizations.

But stealing the word "femininity" is I think a hill no one is willing to die on. There are people who genuinely believe that females are oppressed due to our expressions of femininity rather than our biology. I think this is one of the major points where genuine people end up talking around each other. For feminists of the feminist persuasion we know women and girls are oppressed due to biology. Whereas feminists of the liberal/libertarian/whatever persuasion believe that females are largley NATURALLY feminine and thus it is the cornerstone of our oppression.

If we're talking about what the definition of woman should be in order to achieve some social good then would it not be better, since we're choosing definitions for normative purposes, to say that woman means "person without a penis, who therefore has a superior brain and as a result greater natural authority" ? This would do a lot to tackle sex based oppression and the gender pay gap. Yes I'm pleased with my chosen definition and I think I shall insist upon others using it since it would help a great deal.

All this academia is an insult to women. Real women in the real world. Yunno, the one that exists as a material reality that we all occupy (as opposed to the made up pomo / Judith Butler / 6th form essay / thought experiment Orwellian wank world that trans ideology comes from).

You want to know what a woman is?
Call your mother.

That is Epic!

Also, there are people who seem to believe in magic or alchemy. The power of thoughts to transform something/someone. I think this is a part of self-help culture creep. Class analysis seems to be dead. How do we resuscitate it?

We sent some pictures and recordings on a spacecraft called Voyager in case intelligent life ever finds it. Glad we did it years ago.

I'm voting for SarahCarer's definition. It's the most reality based.

Yep me too Floorplan as the plague totally covers all represention of males and females on the planet. Oh hold on its 2 white western people no guess not

And saying as we have had to wade through an awful lot of posts that are all style over substance on this thread, I thought I'd post a bit of substance from a feminist thinker who I advise anyone is confused as to what a woman is to read; Andrea Dworkin.

Men have defined the parameters of every subject. All feminist arguments, however radical in intent or consequence, are with or against assertions or premises implicit in the male system, which is made credible or authentic by the power of men to name.

How right she was. I hope the academics on this thread think about what she says here. I mean really think about it. With their own brains.

voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/galleries/images-on-the-golden-record/

Floorplan . That really called for a laughing crying face but mn doesn't have one.
Let's hope by the time they arrive this whole nonsense has blown over.
Damn I'm gonna be up all night now wondering what aliens would make of this mess.
Aliens are one of my favourite daydreams.

It's out there in the Universe.

Be spin the images were totally representative. Look for yourself in the link.

Very interesting thank you. I think the images are very representative, good starting point for any aliens that make it.

We sent some pictures and recordings on a spacecraft called Voyager in case intelligent life ever finds it. Glad we did it years ago.

The thought of Voyager and the Mars rovers Spirit and Opportunity being all alone, out there, upsets me and makes my brain to mush.

I also can't sleep without a blanket, in case aliens get me.

We all have that point.
At least mine is over something trival and damn stupid.

I must however point out that, I guess aliens will be transphobic when they do arrive on earth.

Yep totally Floorplan was thinking of the plague not the recording though my bad