Alternative Definitions of 'Woman'?

[Dragoncake]

Do you disagree with the definition of 'woman' as 'adult human female'?

If you disagree, what is your own definition of the word?

A woman is....what exactly?

Is there even a definition? Or is 'woman' simply indefinable in your view?

On the 'A Woman is an Adult Human Female' thread I asked those who disagree to provide their alternative definition of the word.

Several people engaged, but nobody seemed able to do this.

If you have one, please post your alternative definition here. Thanks.

Good. You understand that in a crowd of ten thousand women, one male destroys that female space. Now it seems to me that you wish to destroy all female spaces. Is that right?

I guess the questions might be...would you agree that a transwoman in an all female space also means it is no longer an all female space?

Would you agree that, with society as it is today, then there is a need for all female spaces ?

Sorry if I have missed that already I am getting confused sometimes between thads

Threads

Mimmymam well seeing as I'm. in that all woman space and that I'm included in that space for something say like a concert and im a ttans woman and at this moment in time society as agreed to include me in such spaces then to me and the wider society then there is not an issue and no space is destroyed to you I understand that if viewed diffently and that will never change and that there is no solution to that for you other then not to allow me in it then we are a bit stuck. if you change societies view and it supports your point of view then you will have a solution if you don't then I'm unsure what else you can do. there have always been groups of people who can not except the way societies change. that is not to say there is not area for debate around introducing new laws and who they do and do not include that we can debate and find solutions to

So yes, you wish to destroy all female-only spaces.

Mimmymam so no I don't but to you I always will so let's stop going around in circles and look at the things we can find solutions to maybe. there as been really good discussion on this thread around other aspects of this away from the things we will never agreen on.

Well, you just said you did.

Women only spaces are either protected by the EA or not depending on which thread and who's opinion is being given. Its absolutely absurd.

Why are so many people are against the third space option?

Bespin seems to want those legal exemptions removed. And they say there's no challenge to the Equality Act.

Upstart Crow

womans spaces are defined in the EA and only. in. a small number of very demonstrable cases do not include trans woman and I'm. ok with that I know some trans activists are not but I disagree with them on a number of things. our concert is not covered in the EA to exclude trans woman. I do think the bar needs to be legally tested as at the moment both sides calm its set to high or too low when it's in fact. not really been set anywhere as. no one as tested it fully.

I think people would be on board with a third option they mostly seem to say but how in this current society are we even going to start that without disadvantageing people to which no one as a good answer. other cultures have had third gender options built in but for us we would have to change to that so. how do. we do it

Mimmymam see above post that is not at all what I want I'm. Happy with the exemptions in the EA they are needed for the very specific reasons they are in there for, what I object to is people trying to use then for things they were not put in there for like. toilets or Ed sheeran concerts.

Hey, but maybe we should push for the reinstatement of werman for blokes

Afraid that's going to lead to my assuming that they get a lot hairier and start howling every time there's a full moon...

I'm not talking about an Ed Sheeran concert.

I'm talking about any female space being destroyed if it has a single male in it. A female soacwcus an absolute, and talk of 'small numbers' of trans people is completely destroyed.

A refuge that has a 200 females and one male is no longer a female space. A stadium with 10,000 females and one male is not a female space. A prison cell with one female and one male is not a female space. Female-spaces are an absolute, and they are protected in the Equality Act.

Women's spaces are defined as being single sex. They aren't all named, as its impossible to list all the ones that are needed or all the reasons women need them.

Either they are protected or they are not; they cannot both be 'protected' and inclusive.

but also in the EA trans woman are included in that single sex space. so what you are saying Is the equality act need changing.

under the equality act me. being in that space does not stop it being a single sex space unless a very small highly justified reason is given.

that is the current position and I get you want to change that and change the EA but at this moment I does not work the way you keep stating it does

I'll repeat the feminist definitions I gave upthread:

Woman as objective class of a mammalian species:

Woman is an adult human female.

Woman as objectively defined social construct:

Woman is the subordinate class in a sex caste social system.

These are precise definitions. There is no circularity. Everybody agrees what each definition means, even if they disagree politically with the social construct definition. It's robust.

If transactivism can provide me with two equally robust alternative definitions, I might think there is a point to this thread. It doesn't, so there isn't.

It doesn't matter how much word salad anybody throws at it. Transactivism has no solid definition of woman as a social construct - only a death spiral of circularity. And in my view, the reason for this is that it is a male supremacist ideology.

Right, so women only spaces are not in any way 'protected', since any man can go to their GP, announce they are starting the process of becoming a woman, and gain instant access.

but also in the EA trans woman are included in that single sex space

Please don't lie

Well apart from the ones that are covered though not defined or fully. named but are felt to include abuse support and vulnerable groups.

"since any man can go to their GP, announce they are starting the process of becoming a woman, and gain instant access"

you have obviously not been through the nhs process. but in seriousness it would again need to be tested as no one to my knowledge as done that and then challenged the EA or used it to gain instant rights. again the reality seems to be that people work together to make this process easier for everyone. or as in smaller companies they sack the trans person.

Mimmymam please show me where you think in the EA that is apart from the exemptions.

Apart from in the exemptions? Who said apart from in the exemptions?

It's you who claims that the exemptions do not exclude transexual and transgender males

The Equality Act states that people have the protected status of 'transgender' from the first appointment at their GP. They don't have to do anything else, or obtain a GRC.

This is one reason why both women and transsexual people are upset.

Upstart Crow I remember going to the gp for the first time it took a week to get the courage to ask for a referral I did not intently. walk out of the office and say I'm a woman now to everyone who passed. maybe I was doing it wrong though.

It's you who claims that the exemptions do not exclude transexual and transgender males or females. I'm a bit lost at that one we are included unless the space exsempt for a. very express reason as previously discussed.

You keep contradicting yourself. Transexual males aren't included in the female-only spaces in the Equality Act exemptions. If you think they are, or should be, then you wish to destroy female only spaces.

I suggest you get dictation on your phone, unless your posting style is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate your points so that you can keep contradicting in the hope no one will notice.