Gender neutral school uniform = Trousers

[ItIsOnlyAnOpinion]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5906031/Girls-banned-wearing-skirts-40-schools-insist-gender-neutral-uniforms.html

No more skirts.

It is not appropriate for any working environment

I'm an adult, I only wear short skirts, shock horror to work!!! Don't sexulise my legs. They are a functional limb.

Girls roll up there skirts to rebel, not to distract pervert men. At my school lots of girls just wore small shorts under their skirts anyway. So this running and jumping argument it bollocks anyway.

Let girls choose whether they want to wear trousers or skirts, don't take options away from them. And alot of teenage girls would be horrified at wearing shorts to school - longer ones arn't exactly flattering on the chunkier leg.

"girls wanting to wear things that "suit" , " fit well" or otherwise look pretty are playing into the notion that how pretty you look really matters."

Interesting.

When I said "fit well" I meant comfortable. I didn't mean "fitted to show off" or anything like that. I mean the right length, comfy around the waist and hips and thighs (harder to achieve with girls beng such different shapes). You know, not too long or too short. Not rubbing anywhere. Not loose at the waist and tight on the hips or vice versa.

Just goes to show how loaded converasation around female clothing is and how easy to get at cross purposes.

Normally when people say "does it fit well" they mean is it the right size and comfy, don't they?

Not to attract pervert men...but to attract the attention of teenage boys.

And this other bit:

"Why is it important for girls to look pretty but not important for boys? "

Have you never met a teenage boy?

Surely most people like to wear clothes that suit them, certainly teen adn up and into elderly. Many people rock a "style" that is their own. There is huge diversity and pleasure in dressing for many people, and of course picking clothes that suit you is a perfectly normal thing to do!

• aghast at anyone who thinks teenage boys aren't trying to look attarctive Have you ever waited for one to get ready? Been shopping with one? I mean I'm sure it isn't across the board, but the idea that boys are not inetrested in looking nice is, well, silly.

Timelady I rolled mine up becasue it was what all the otehr girls did.

How it came across to men / boys was not something that was in my mind at all.

We need to remmeber that not everyone has the same motivations. A man's assumption that a woman or girl wearing a short skirt is doing so to show off her legs to the opposite sex is an incorrect assumption. While fashions and society are focussed on the male gaze, for individual women, there many be a variety of reasons that they make the choices they do from the options they are given.

A man at work told me that all women at work who wear heels do so so to make their calves look appealing to men like him, from behind. How many women were consciously thikning that when they bought / put on their shoes. Not all of them, by a long chalk.

Hey, I'm as feminist as they come, but why do they roll up their skirts at the waist band then? So they can run? Oh, c,mon.

Straight skirts well below the knees. We either hiked them up or rolled them up to run.
They made us kneel on the floor to prove our skirts were below the knee. We were only allowed to wear pants under skirts in the dead of winter until we arrived at school at which time we were required to remove them.
You could not run in the damn things but they were the fashion so that is what we wore.
I got over fashion the year I was 14.

but to attract the attention of teenage boys.

And what's wrong with that?

During lessons your legs are under a desk anyway so the teenage boys can't see.

It's not the teenage boys that have the issue - it's the adult men that don't want to see young girls legs because they are perverts that see children as sexual objects.

I would have no problem with it, but would also support a kilt as an additional option for both sexes, from a single supplier, available in a range of both waist sizes and length, and with strict rules of length enforced.

So generic trousers or shorts, or a kilt that fits.

I'd find it 'distracting' from my work if I had to wear uncomfortable clothes. And back when I was at school and unable to go to the loo exactly when I needed, really distracting if I had to wear clothes that couldn't readily accommodate a flood barrier. Is a girl's need not to be distracted by her clothing less important than whether a boy might be distracted? Who's problem is that?

Make all girls wear trousers and you'll still find men and boys who lust over a neat ankle. Covering up female flesh as a solution has its logical end in the burka FFS.

bewilderness
By 'pants' I am assuming that you are from North America and you mean what is otherwise known as trousers and not what the British call pants and you call underwear?

(Please make it be so....)

Like others, I'm so utterly fucked off that choices are being taken away from young women in the name of trans rights

And women who call themselves feminists colluding with and cheering it on.

Sardines, I am not sure when men and women say things fit well they mean the same thing. And I know that I mean something different to the teenage dd.

Think of the pockets. A man is happy to load up the pockets because they don't mind that it affects the line of the trouser. Despite my best feminist opinions, I know a notice if I have a paper tissue in my pocket. It would feel less comfortable.

Or belts. Most men in my workplace have belts because that gives flexibility over the waist size. They don't expect a perfect fit with no bunching.

And my teenage dd was quite capable of saying that something was not comfortable as a proxy for it doesn't look good to me. the fit and comfort was correlated to the colour.

I bet most women who are struggling to walk properly will tell you their shoes fit and are comfortable.

What we see affects how we feel about something.

These are the best school (unisex) uniforms I ever came across. You can wear what you like underneath so lovely and warm in the winter and cool in the summer. Hideous to look at, but at least everyone looks hideous.

Normally when people say "does it fit well" they mean is it the right size and comfy, don't they?

Yes that was an odd assumption to think it meant something different wasn't it?

Trousers are super comfortable and practical and fit/suit everyone- even those girls they don't fit or suit in any sense of these words.

Id like to ask the head exactly what he means by ‘decency.’

SisyphusWasGenderCritical Mon 02-Jul-18 18:11:04 bewilderness By 'pants' I am assuming that you are from North America and you mean what is otherwise known as trousers and not what the British call pants and you call underwear?(Please make it be so....)

I forget sometimes that we are divided by an ocean, a continent, and a common language.
Yes, trousers are called pants here in the People's Republic of the Puget Sound. Uncomfortable clothes are pants, in your sense of the word, was my point.

Urgh

So many things wrong with the head's statement. "Decency" FFS

Did you see the quote from a girl in The Times?

'“If any teacher believes seeing a child’s leg is in any way ‘too sexual’,” states the petition, “they should be sacked immediately for gross misconduct.”'

I too am disappointed to see a choice removed from girls - and dismayed to see feminists supporting it.

I still remember my first few periods when I'd go to school wearing two sanitary towels and still get flooded. Trousers would have been a humiliation. Please think about it.

(Large parts of the UK call trousers pants as well, but it always confuses me too.)
I really like the third option of a kilt for girls and boys, but most of all welcome trousers for girls and boys.

It's not dissimilar to Chesterton Fence, I think.

If you personally don't understand why people make a certain choice, don't take that choice away lightly.

Why 'kilts' rather than the standard A line or pleated skirt? The only reason is because kilts are accepted as being a form masculine attire.

I understood that the objection to trousers was due to the removal of skirts as an option for girls, many school uniforms currently insist upon kilts for girls;so surely adding a trousers option for girls and kilts as an option for boys would be fair?

I suggested a kilt, because I would want it to be tartan, specific to the school, so it has to be bought from a single supplier. Worn knee length, and pleated for ease of movement. If it was a kilt, then I think more boys would be open to wearing it as well. As hugoagogo said, many school uniforms already have kilts for girls, I'd guess that there would be more girls than boys currently wearing kilts.

My secondary school was all girls so when we rolled our skirts it was to be rebellious and see at what point the teachers would say something, not because we were trying to attract the attention of the nonexistant boys. But I'm sure some of the blokes in this thread will find a way to make it about saucy little minxes trying to arouse them anyway.