Gender neutral school uniform = Trousers

[ItIsOnlyAnOpinion]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5906031/Girls-banned-wearing-skirts-40-schools-insist-gender-neutral-uniforms.html

No more skirts.

the gender neutral just happens to be the male default. Funny that
Thats already the default though, because many women freely choose to wear trousers, whereas virtually no boys choose to wear skirts /dresses. In my town it's unusual to see girls and women wearing skirts during the winter, and even in the summer many women still opt for trousers, shorts, those all in one things (playsuits) and yes, some dresses and skirts but very rarely as short as the ones that girls wear as part of their school uniform. I can guarantee that when these girls go to non uniform sixth form college (no sixth forms in schools in our area) the vast majority of them will choose to wear trousers (skinny jeans most likely ). There seems to be something specific about school uniform that leads girls to dress in a different way, and I think head teachers should be able to address this.

There seems to be something specific about school uniform that leads girls to dress in a different way, and I think head teachers should be able to address this.

I think this is because out of school we can wear jeans, leggings, tracksuit bottoms etc. These are stretchy and tailored to woman's bodies and so comfy. You will very rarely see a girl or woman outside of an office/work setting wearing tailored trousers.

At school they have the option of tailored trousered or a skirt. Most women and girls would in this case prefer a skirt. Of course we'd mostly prefer jeans, but thats not an option.

Look at dress down days. They all wear jeans, but that doesn't mean they want to wear tailored trouseres.

The really stupid thing is, most offices are allowing jeans and chenos now. So the schools don't really need to enforce this fo-office wear anymore. They could just let them all wear jeans.

Our school allows children to wear any skirt or trousers they like, as long as they are black. A lot of girls wear black jeans or leggings. They're also allowed to wear any shoes they like, as long as they are more or less black. So some wear trainers. I really like this level of flexibility - uniform is simply never a problem. They're also allowed died hair, long hair for boys, etc. I don't see why other schools can't take this approach and concentrate on teaching rather than uniform.

but that doesn't mean they want to wear tailored trouseres

The girls at my son's school have not done so despite the choice being available.

Thats already the default though, because many women freely choose to wear trousers, whereas virtually no boys choose to wear skirts /dresses

And so what? Many women and girls freely choose dresses and skirts.

I never saw my son's first girlfriend wearing trousers. They were at the same school so I saw her in school uniform kilt, dresses with leggings, tops with leggings, shorts with opaque tights but jeans or trousers- no.

Tailored trousers would have been a nightmare for her. She was tiny with a slim waist but a curvy figure. If trousers fitted her waist or height they wouldn't have fitted her bum. But who cares if you can have gender neutral.

The sad thing here it's that you all are saying uniform trousers are not flattering for girls. And guess what? They're not for boys, but doesn't matter because boys doesn't need to be pretty, right? They can look cool with comfy clothes that doesn't fit every tiny curve of them or show something.

So the depressing message we're giving to our girls is: you have to show something or wear something that show your curves to go to school because if not in other case you would look bad.

Look around you. Who do you think by societal unspoken rules, are wearing the most uncomfortable clothes? Is that something we want to pass to our children? I mean, they're going to learn it, of course but should we really say to a girl: "right wear a skirt because your bum looks awful in trousers" like Lass it's implying in the post before.
So who are sexualising who? The ones that says girls should be comfy so out the skirts or the ones saying the girls should look good?

I really see your point about girls having a choice, given that feminism is about women choosing, but I would like to live in a society that doesn't put girls or women need (I would say more requirement) to look good on top of the list.

Also don't you think we need to draw the line somewhere? I work as an engineer in a really big company (I going to leave the sexism I face everyday for being the only woman there for another post ) one colleague has big muscles and he likes to show them and one day he came with an sleeveless shirt and immediately was disciplined for that. So, are we taking the choice for him? Are we sexualising him? No, my company wants a professional but relaxed looks.

It's bad to shame girls because they're showing skin, as much that thinking we shouldn't say something no matter how short the skirts are. Roll the skirt up it's not rebelling with society (I can't believe I've read that here) it's following the trend that society wants for girls, to look sexy, the same that waxing everything isn't rebelling against anything.

Are you actually reading the same thread as me? It's not a desire to show flesh or look pretty though teenage girls often do want to do or experiment with both of those it's a fitting, form comfort issue for many of us. Girls/women have a different shape to boys. Removing our choices and prioritising those of male bodied persons is misogyny

The sad thing here it's that you all are saying uniform trousers are not flattering for girls.

I think people are actually saying tailored trousers are uncomfortable for alot of women and girls. For some people they are tight in the seat, dig in a camel toe, cut in your hips, flash your butt when you sit down or are too tight around the tighs.

I have never had a comfortable pair of trousers, hence why I stick to skirts, i can wear jeans but they have to be from the tall range at Topshop or newlook.

I'd rather wear trousers than have mandatory "boys in skirts" days like mermaids transactivists probably want! But that's just me, I never liked skirts but obviously girls shouldn't be forced to wear boy clothes

Tailored trousers are the worst. I can't bear them.

@InfiniteSheldon Sorry I must be thick, but I don't understand why our body (women body) doesn't allow us to wear trousers. Boys have between them different shapes and trousers are nicer for ones but not for another (Boys with really fatty legs have to stick with them, right?)

The thing is doesn't matter for boys that the trousers are nice or not they're wear them (as same as suits or whatever male clothes), so they don't focus if they look nice, it's just a uniform. Can not the girls have the same thing? To grow knowing the can focus in another thing about not looking good?

And yes, uniforms are going always to be bad for some shapes of kids (boys or girls doesn't matter) but they're uniforms, it's impossible to be right for everybody. If we want totally free choice, then the uniform should be out. But again for sure some rules are applied on clothes for the no-uniform schools. Like when I was a kid in my school girls could not wear skirts and boys couldn't wear shorts, and I'm from the south of Spain (more than 40 degrees in summer). So really free choice would not be available, right?

Boys do not have anything like the same variations of shape as girls do you can't compare the two! Surely you are able to see that. They also don't have periods and more minorly don't have to wee sitting down

@InfiniteSheldon I really want to see it, really, but I can't. So I fit in everything you're saying why girls should wear skirt and no trousers. When I was a teenager (and until I started with the pill) I had very strong periods. I had to leave class to go change, sometimes every half an hour and would wear three layers of underwears to have more protection and so my sanitary towel (that in those times were huge) wouldn't move. For me trousers at that time were the best, provide me more fixation, and I was really scared to wear skirts and to have blood falling from my legs (I had nightmares with this). So I can't understand the period point.

And about body shape, my type was very curvy when teenager (and now, of course) I had a tiny waist and big hips and really thick tights that doesn't match with the rest of my body. But again, I didn't see issues with trousers. And I told you before my experience in my highschool with no skirts and the girls were really happy with that rule, anyway the ones that really liked skirts still could wear them outside the school...

Also what about the wee sitting thing? I don't get it. I wee seated and wear trousers... Really sorry, but genuinely don't understand

The sad thing here it's that you all are saying uniform trousers are not flattering for girls

You are right - you are being thick if that is what you got out of this thread.

course but should we really say to a girl: "right wear a skirt because your bum looks awful in trousers" like Lass it's implying in the post before

I said nothing of the kind. It is interesting that you twist it to being about looks. I said tailored trousers would be "a nightmare for" Tailored trousers would have been awful for this girl because without tailoring/alterations they would not have fitted her.

Very interesting that you chose to interpret tbat which was referring to the lack of comfort and lack of fitting to mean what you thought.

Quite, Lass. The demonisation of skirts drives me up the wall. Trousers are uncomfortable for me. I can't sit still in them so I wear long loose skirts.

I think the main difference here is between expanding choice and restricting it. I know from other threads that Lass wears heels. I don't because they are uncomfortable for me but I would never take away her heels. I just don't wear them.

In this instance, rather than open up the choice to everyone, a choice is taken away from, oh look, girls.

Lass I can call myself thick but I don´t allow you to call me that.

If I didn´t understand what you said correctly, you can say it nicely and say why I´m wrong. I´m not thick as I said before, I´m Spanish and English is not my native language so sometimes struggle with terms but anyway you really shouldn´t call names to anybody.

Given that I apologise because I understood your post wrong and though you were meaning that didn´t fit her bum, like the trousers are baggy in her bum (that´s not bad and lot of boys have that)

Anyway please, don´t call me anything near of thick again. That was really awful and it made me feel sad

You said it yourself. Your posts missed what was being said by a mile.

You had no difficulty putting a bizarre interpretation on what I said.

Your suggestion of what I was suppose to be implying - that I was saying to a girl "right wear a skirt because your bum looks awful in trousers" like Lass is implying in the post before" was extremely offensive.

And frankly quite a nasty thing to say.

I know from other threads that Lass wears heels. I don't because they are uncomfortable for me but I would never take away her heels. I just don't wear them

I rarely wear high heels but like you it is not for me to take anyone's choices away from me.

Personally I like skirts and dresses and always wear them out of preference

I don't see why girls and boys can't have the choice of both skirts and trousers (shorts in warm weather)

Celia Walden wrote a rather bizarre piece in the Telegraph on this yesterday - I couldn't quite work out her argument

I don't want to pile on a poster who's not posting in their natal language but Happy isn't the only one who's given the impression that they see this as purely a style choice. As it happens, I adore tailored trousers but this isn't the thread. This is about the comfort and dignity of girls.

Whenever I had heavy, irregular periods (adolescence and peri-menopause) I always chose skirts because, unlike trousers, they skim your arse. They're less likely to show the outline of an extra thick sanitary pad and they're less likely to give you away if you flood. I really don't know how I can put it any plainer.

Lass posted this yesterday and I think she has a point. I think some feminists just loathe the idea that there are girls and women who like things associated with femininity.
I've known feminists who have what verges on a visceral dislike of skirts. And I partly get it - I'm also of that generation that can still remember trousers being forbidden at work and it used to make me furious. But if you can't see past that then I really don't know what else to say.

Uniform trousers are miserable for women. I do not know about school uniforms, but I hated the trousers that are designed for men whose waist to hip ratio is so very different from women's. To fit the hip I had to use the belt to gather in six inches of the waist or have them tailored.
Don't even get me started on how miserable they were for us when we menstruated. We called them pants because they are "pants".

Tailored trousers are only a good choice if they are tailored to fit your body. Like tailored skirts or any other piece of clothing cut to fit. Most of us choose to wear clothes that are comfortable, in colours and styles that suit us and match the conditions (weather, AC etc). It's really only when rigid uniforms are imposed that people find themselves wearing clothes that don't fit well, are colours that don't suit, are too hot/cold etc. Why schools think this is such a great idea that will make us love our schools is beyond me.

Sorry, Lass. I somehow got the impression you did wear heels. Point still stands. Think we're agreeing on principle though.

ISaySteadyOn no apology needed. I was probably just defending heels so vociferously. I'm usually in ballet flats but they are just as hated as heels!

Fair enough, Lass. I just didn't want to misrepresent you.

Janice Turner briefly commented in the Times today - 'has anyone asked the kids?'

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/let-the-kids-choose-their-own-school-uniform-mh375btds?shareToken=d7d04062a9b5b89010b9b48004148f32