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Original poster

The mother of Tom Daley's child

999 replies

Pratchet · 01/07/2018 09:27

Congratulations on a healthy baby! Hope the birth went safely and that you are recovering well.

I just hate surrogacy in case you can't tell

OP posts:
SomeDyke · 02/07/2018 21:57

As regards pregnancy, it is potentially life-threatening. When it comes to life-changing transplant surgery with a live donor, we accept altruistic and familial donations. But, as RTB keeps pointing out, this isn't an organ, this is a baby. And we seem to have ended up where we didn't want to, with rich blokes buying babies.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 02/07/2018 22:02

Something else bothers me about this view that the surrogate mother 'doesn't see the baby as hers'. It is such a callous view of the growing foetus who definitely sees her as it's mum with its every survival instinct. How sad that she feels no responsibility or reciprocal bond, instead has coldly detached herself and will sell the baby when it's born. Poor kid.

NonSuchFun · 02/07/2018 22:03

RTB Me in your fan club too. 💪🏻👍👏😘

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 02/07/2018 22:03

It's up to the woman to decide what risks she wants to take - as a grown arse adult, I'm sure she is capable and doesn't need someone else to decide for her. That makes you the same as men who think they have a right to control women's bodies.
On the whole, I agree that there is a lot to consider wrt the future of surrogacy, esp putting the child's needs at the core of what we eventually decide. I would not allow couples to go abroad, so that they have less stringent rules. I want everyone involved to be fully counselled so they know what they are agreeing to and I would also want children to have one proper biological mother and father, so an end the this business of getting an egg from one place, having someone else give birth and mixing sperm so the poor little bugger has no idea where he comes from or who his parents really are.
But I still think there is a place for properly regulated surrogacy on the proviso that we can establish it isn't harmful to children. Adhering to proper controls could maybe give us that.
Anyway, have to go to bed - have a busy day tomorrow, so will bow out now.

OrchidInTheSun · 02/07/2018 22:05

There is no getting away from the fact that this is a trade in humans. And trading humans can never be a good thing

OlennasWimple · 02/07/2018 22:05

Men's involvement in creating a baby is so limited that they are able to do it multiple times a day. Women can only do their bit once a year or so

NonSuchFun · 02/07/2018 22:26

Lunatrap. Wow. That case just leaves me speechless. How can it be there is no oversight of the well being of these babies by social services or the courts or something. It just sums up everything that is wrong with surrogacy. Also it sounds a bit like her husband/partner was at least encouraging (pressuring) her to become a surrogate and do her bit for the family finances.

Lichtie · 02/07/2018 22:27

Why is there the assumption that it is in the best interest of the child to be with a mother that doesn't want it?

Having the anatomy and the ability to have a child doesn't make someone a good mother or parent.

LunaTrap · 02/07/2018 22:31

Is it in the best interests of a child to be deliberately created by a mother that doesn't want it?

IHaveBrilloHair · 02/07/2018 22:36

We don't allow buying of body parts for a good reason, but think about it:
Someone buys a kidney, they go on to live longer, the donor has chosen this and is handsomely rewarded, makes a good recovery, obviously the kidney knows nothing.

Yet replace kidney with baby and this is allowed?
Why?

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 02/07/2018 22:36

Is it in the best interests of a child to be deliberately created by a mother that doesn't want it?

Exactly. It's a fucking tragedy when a mother doesn't want her child, not something that should be deliberately fostered and commercially exploited.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2018 22:37

Why is there the assumption that it is in the best interest of the child to be with a mother that doesn't want it?

A child which would not exist if it was not being bought. A child that has been 'made to order'.

The idea that the child would exist and stay with its mother if someone wasn't buying it, somewhat misses the point.

And to be honest, it just seems that comments like that are just a desparate clutching at straws to excuse surrogacy which is falling apart in its inconsistencies.

LunaTrap · 02/07/2018 22:46

NonSuchFun the lack of oversight and child protection is shocking. As said earlier in the thread the child's best interest is the foundation of our family law- except apparently when it comes to surrogacy.

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/07/2018 22:54

"That makes you the same as men who think they have a right to control women's bodies."

No. It makes me the same as other people who don't think that selling organs, blood etc is the right thing to do.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2018 22:58

Don't forget this delightful case
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/11055643/British-mother-rejected-disabled-twin-because-she-was-a-dribbling-cabbage-says-surrogate.html
British mother rejected disabled twin because she was a 'dribbling cabbage,' says surrogate
The biological mother took the healthy boy but refused to take his twin sister, saying: 'No one would want to adopt a disabled child'

Can you imagine raising one child who was disabled, whilst knowing their twin brother was being raised by a couple who were disgusted by the thought of a disabled child?

And that's not a commercial surrogacy either...

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 02/07/2018 23:03

Why is there the assumption that it is in the best interest of the child to be with a mother that doesn't want it?

That reminds me of the Harry Enfield sketch where the really stupid man argues with a vegetarian - 'What are you gonna do with all the cows?'

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 02/07/2018 23:05

Fuck me RTB. ShockAngrySad

CanineEnigma · 02/07/2018 23:08

And let's not forget Gammy, rejected by the intended parents (including a biological father) because he has Downs. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/14/baby-gammy-was-not-abandoned-in-thailand-court-rules/

For some there will be irreparable damage. For others they recover totally.
Find me a woman who experienced not a single permanent change to their body following pregnancy and childbirth. Not a single stretch mark, saggy breast, ballooned belly, c-section scar, vaginal tearing and following pain, weak pelvic floor, weak bladder, changed menstruation. Not to mention the temporary changes.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2018 23:11

Yeah if you go into surrogacy, to have a baby you don't want, you could still be left holding the baby at the end, if you don't produce one which doesn't match the order catalogue of shiny new perfect baby.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2018 23:14

Do you think surrogate agencies do clearance sales?

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 02/07/2018 23:22

That's so sad. Poor kids Sad

But also the surrogate mothers- knowing they've given their babies to such nasty people. That would eat away at you wouldn't it?

LunaTrap · 02/07/2018 23:23

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/national/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/article22395172/

The above is a clear case of a woman being a surrogate because she was desperate for the money. The 'commissioning parents' have not paid her in full because she provided them with an ill child which they weren't expecting but they have paid part of the balance by giving her a used computer. It is beyond awful.

Wherismymind · 02/07/2018 23:23

But a woman cannot get pg without him. Therefore he is essential to the process, like it or not!

I don't want to nit pick, but through cloning a woman can.

LunaTrap · 02/07/2018 23:27

This is another case of IPs not wanting the child because of disability, and having completely opposing views to the surrogate over abortion. How is it possible to get to the point where the baby is already on its way before you discuss these potential issues?

creatingafamily.org/infertility-category/surrogacy-wrong/

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2018 23:30

Imagine being Grammy's mother. Left with the disabled unwanted baby only to then find out Grammy's twin sister was being raised by a convicted paedo.

Just horrendous.