The mother of Tom Daley's child

[Pratchet]

Congratulations on a healthy baby! Hope the birth went safely and that you are recovering well.

I just hate surrogacy in case you can't tell

Redtoothbrush. Thanks for reposting. I did read it earlier, and I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it.

People do have babies. A woman undeniably does more but she couldn't have one without the 50% of genetic info from the father.

Just like you don't get to decide what other woman can and can't do with their bodies
Genital Mutilation Act, Abortion Act, Human Rights Act. We do get to decide. Or did.

@IWannaSeeHowItEnds do you know what pregnancy involves for a woman? It is not at all the same as a temporary use of her body for a period of time.

A woman who is pregnant and gives birth does everything to create that child, bar the initial input of 50% of the DNA.

You know that just because a law hasn't been broken doesn't mean something is ethical don't you?

Not to mention that laws are not always right and that if you have enough money, you can often get around laws that everyone else has to abide by.

So there is effectively a law for the plebs and a law for the celebs.

And if you are really rich and powerful you can even change the law to suit you, or ignore the law to suit you or buy off people to protect from the law. (See one Donald J Trump for tips on how to do this).

I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it.

Let me rephrase that.

I am a patronising you by giving you platitudes about respect because I don't believe in human rights.

Let's just cut the crap. I'm rather sick of the frilly linguistics when it comes to rights atm.

People do have babies. A woman undeniably does more but she couldn't have one without the 50% of genetic info from the father.

No.

Men produce semen. Women have babies.

Tom Daley made his money from his body. Why do we draw the line at sex work and surrogacy? Is that maybe a bit Victorian?

That is a false equivalency though. Tom Daley made money by training his body to acquire a high level of skill in diving. It took intention and effort.

Having a body that happens to be fuckable and impregnatable is, well just that, a happening, they are not “trainable skills” even though the act of sex and pregnancy/birth can involve skill (unconscious women can be fucked, gestate and give birth).

Also this whole idea that the male role is just as important is bullshit.

This nauseating thing of saying 'we're pregnant' so the bloke doesn't feel left out (or perhaps desert?) is such crap.

She is pregnant. It is over to her now.

Beauty, I know full well what happens in pg - I've done it more than once. I would never be a surrogate. But I accept that not all women are the same as me!

I agree that the rich should not be allowed to circumvent British law to suit themselves.

RTB. That was my point, laws aren't always right. It was directed at the poster who said we have decided because it's not allowed by law. The law can be an ass.

Yes and commercial surrogacy is BOTH illegal in the UK and deeply unethical cos it's exploitive and doesn't put the child first.

It's acceptable in the US where the law is weak and human rights and the rights of the child are not ratified in law...

But we should be more accepting of it.

Got it.

What utter fucking bullshit.

@IWannaSeeHowItEnds it's not about personal feelings about pregnancy though. You must know that what a woman's body does during pregnancy means that it isn't at all like a temporary rental that has no impact at all.

Don't remember saying that a man can be pg. Clearly that's not true. But a woman cannot get pg without him. Therefore he is essential to the process, like it or not!

Like I said Beauty, not all women are the same or have identical experiences of pg.

I'm not talking about your "experience" of pregnancy, that's not relevant. I'm talking about the physical changes that happen to all women who go through pregnancy and birth.

Don't remember saying that a man can be pg.

You said 'people' have babies, ie not just women.

Clearly that's not true. But a woman cannot get pg without him. Therefore he is essential to the process, like it or not!

He may be essential to kicking off 'the process', but after ejaculation his part is done. The woman has the baby. The man produces semen. The two acts aren't exactly on par.

A surrogate uses her body to do this amazing thing for someone else. She deserves acknowledgement for it and that is where a lot of this goes wrong - some men who can have no personal knowledge (or rich women who just don't care) of pg are treating it like it isn't as important as it is.
I think this is about the rich exploiting the poor as much as men exploiting women but most couples who have a baby via surrogacy just want a family and will adore the child and be grateful to the surtogate for hrlping them achieve that.
Most of us have babies because we want them, not for any 'greater' purpose.

Physical changes affect women differently. For some there will be irreparable damage. For others they recover totally. You cant say there is a universal experience.

I'm not talking about "experiences". There is a universal physical process that happens during pregnancy. It is not trivial. It shouldn't be dismissed as simply temporarily renting a woman's body for a period of time with no consequences. And no woman can possibly say beforehand whether a pregnancy will cause damage or not, even if every previous pregnancy was trouble free.

Some posters appear to be doing extreme mental gymnastics- pretending that the woman who grew and birthed a baby isn't its mother, pretending the contribution of women in reproduction is comparable to that of men, pretending that carrying a baby for 9 months is akin to wearing a backpack. I guess that level of denial is necessary in order for surrogacy to be palatable.

And no woman can possibly say beforehand whether a pregnancy will cause damage or not, even if every previous pregnancy was trouble free.

I know someone who nearly died giving birth to her fifth child after having no problems before.

Also not breastfeeding can make women more vulnerable to certain breast cancers etc. Just because the woman thinks it's all hunky dory, it doesn't mean it is.

And there are some posters who make stuff up, regardless of what has actually been said.

there are some posters who make stuff up, regardless of what has actually been said.

Such as?

Anybody who thinks surrogacy isn't the buying and selling of a 'product' need to read this. Agencies withholding a woman's baby and considering putting it up for adoption to 'recoup their losses'.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/surrogate-mother-pregnant-twins-own-baby-jessica-allen-omega-family-global-san-diego-a8034901.html%3famp