The mother of Tom Daley's child

[Pratchet]

Congratulations on a healthy baby! Hope the birth went safely and that you are recovering well.

I just hate surrogacy in case you can't tell

Come off it LunaTrap. Calling my child "a prop" is not "daring to discuss an issue fundamental to women".

Wow Gariguette! We have no idea how you feel about the mother who bore your child(ren) but your post does not not reflect well on your stance.

Excuuuuse women on mumsnet for caring about class exploitation and general exploitation of more vulnerable women than the ones who get to type on mumsnet. Your post makes it sound like you do think women do not get 'own' their uteruses - and that it would be entitled of women to think so, in fact, uteruses are there to serve you if you have the dollar. Not everybody is going to see it like that. Many women (and men!) will want to advocate for women vulnerable enough to have nothing going for them but a uterus up for rent.

Good rule of thumb for assessing men: say no to them and see what they do.

Wow Gariguette, I hope your sons have a better view of women than you do.
You do know without women you wouldn't have your sons right?

Women are allowed to have opinions on this issue whether it offends you or not. Your anger about women daring to share their views and experiences says more about you than them.

Not surrogacy, but arranged adoption (via a fee). This happened when my DD2 was very new, I remember weeping as I breastfed her, thinking about those poor little babies, bartered and sold, on their fourth set of carers in six months. I wonder where and how they are now.

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jan/20/internet-twins-adoption-kilshaw-2001

I can just never accept the commodification of babies, surrogacy isn't just about using women as breeding vessels, lets face it, it's buying babies. The child's welfare and rights are the last thing on anyone's mind.
No one has a right to have a baby or to be a parent.

Yes it is buying babies. People use fancy words to get round this basic fact.

And apparently it is unintelligent and emotionally abusive to be concerned for women out there so poor that they have to put their uterus up for rent to better their lives.

Caring about those women is entitled, abusive and unintelligent! WOW

You are not a good ambassador for gay fathers who use surrogacy.

Blimey, half of the rules of misogyny nailed in a single sentence! Is this some kind of record?

Who called your child a prop? Did you use a paid surrogate?

@langcleg, never a truer word spoken

@gariguette I couldn't give a flying fuck about the feelings of you or your surrogate.
If that's all you think matters here, then fine.
But there's people here who are the adults your children will grow into.
Who've been deeply traumatised by separation from their biological parents, and who are trying to be heard.

Perhaps if you listened and engaged with them, you may find ways to prevent your children from future pain.

I'm sorry that you're offended that people find your actions unconscionable, but that's a consequence of certain decisions.

Good rule of thumb for assessing men: say no to them and see what they do.

Well bloody said.

You know @Gariguette people are allowed to have differing points of view. Even women are allowed to disagree with men - particularly women who know what it is to undergo the body & life & mind-changing physical experience of nurturing and growing another human being for 9 months.

Posts like yours make me think Freud got it the wrong way around: women do not ever have penis envy, but there are clearly some men who have uterus envy, and act that out by despising the very people they envy.

Your view of women who have a different view of the world from yours is little more than the 16th century view of women who "spoke out of turn" as witches.

Actually forget the question about whether you paid for your surrogate. Since your other contributions to these threads have been about how UK surrogacy is just as commercial as the US and you can get round the law and 'pay' alot by carefully recording expenses I'm guessing the answer is yes.

The only way to make sure poor women in foreign countries aren’t exploited by ritch British people who want a child by any means necessary, would be to make it illegal to seek these services abroad. It’s illegal here so why should British citizens be able to use and abuse foreign women in this way. Then if anyone did break this law, they should face very harsh penalities on their return.

Then the only option would be surrogates over here, who say the do it altruistically (and I believe many of not the majority probably do). I still think this may be traumatic for the newborn, to be split from their mother at birth, but at least it would stop these clinics making a fortune out of exploiting women abroad.

I think a congratulations is in order

The woman offered to be a surrogate, she's requested anonymity and they are honouring that.

They have a healthy baby, and the mother was probably well compensated.

Surrogacy does have its place when it's used properly. It's those who use it illegally for trafficking babies where it's disgusting

‘trafficking babies’ meaning ‘exchanging babies for cash’, yes?

gariguette who do you consider to be the mother of your children? Who do your sons consider to be their mother? What do you tell them when they ask?

Listen you disgusting misogynist, one sperm does not add a great deal to the baby making process. A woman devotes almost a year of her life to growing a human being from her blood stream and tissue and energy and fluids. She sustains it and births it. She alone gives it life.

Men help to create an embryo. An embryo can’t do very much. A woman makes a baby - all by herself. Babies know their mothers smell and voice. They haven’t a clue who their fathers are, nor do they care. To remove a newborn from its birth mother is a sinful abomination, an act of pure selfishness.

I couldn’t give a shit how willing your surrogate was to sell her babies. It’s an insult to the dignity of human life.

*When every single child in the world who doesn’t have a home has been adopted, come back to me and talk about surrogacy

I'm assuming you're against IVF as well?*

As a parent who chose not to adopt while there are so many children in need of love, I do have a sense of guilt. However hard to demand that everyone has to adiot.

More use and abuse of women and their bodies

OP thank you for advocating for women. As long as profound inequalities exist there’s very little choice in selling bodies

They have a healthy baby, and the mother was probably well compensated.

Is there a price on a babies head?
Or maybe should there be a price on a babies head?

I agree with every word you've just said 2up2manydown.

Gariguette's sons may grow up gay or they may not. Personally I'm hoping at least one of them rebels in the time honoured way of doing things the opposite way their parents did. Marry a woman, full on white wedding, childbirth the old fashioned way. 🤔🤣 Of course being his daughter in law may have its tricky moments. 🤗😘