The mother of Tom Daley's child

[Pratchet]

Congratulations on a healthy baby! Hope the birth went safely and that you are recovering well.

I just hate surrogacy in case you can't tell

@Broadbeans

I couldn’t agree more with your post. Relinquishing a child for adoption can be considered a form of child abuse.

Planning to put a child through this process, for money, is grotesque.

And growing up knowing that you quite literally had a price, as a human being, well I can’t imagine what that must do to your sense of self and worth.

@LemonJello
In her heart she really wanted to keep me? Does she think about me? Was the money worth giving me up? Is that how much I’m worth? If she didn’t need the money would she have kept me? What did that money buy that was worth more to her than me? Would my parents have still paid if there was something wrong with me? Do they ever regret buying me?

Spot on.

But no one has an issue with lesbians having children?

They have deliberately muddied the waters by using eggs from one woman and the womb of another. Who the hell is the mother?

My understanding is that this is standard practice - that it is, in fact, very discouraged for the surrogate to be carrying a baby conceived from her own egg. Which doesn't make it right - since the logic seems to be to limit bonding you could argue that it shows what's so troubling about this whole thing - but it isn't some strange decision that this particular couple have made.

I only know of lesbians using the sperm of a male friend, they use their own egg and body, the father is normally around for the child.

What about the baby's rights IWanna? He should be forcibly removed from the woman who birthed him, whose smell he recognises, denied her breastmilk because one of the Dads donated his sperm and a contract was signed?

That is one of my big issues about surrogacy, it is entirely about the rights and entitlement of the adults when every other aspect of family law is about the best interests of the child.

There's a tone on this thread that suggests that all babies deserve their mothers and that taking a baby away from its mother is child abuse. Do people saying this then think that a child cannot have/grow up with two dads and that they need a mother in their life?

LunaTrap

I agree with everything you have written.

'Using' eggs from one woman and the womb of another

Jesus H can it get much worse

People desperately digging for homophobia here. Really?

So a child has a right to a mother, then he has a right to a father too.

So basically, same sex couples just forget having a kid.

And Lass, when I start advocating snatching women off the street, helping men to rape them in order to get babies, then you get to call me an 'Aunt'. In the meantime, stop over egging your point. Thinking that a surrogate is not a mother, unless biologically related to the child and thinking that in the UK a woman should have the right to do as she pleases, so long as that choice is freely made, does not make me comparable to a character in HT!

I’m not digging for it. I can’t see how it’s anything other than homophobic, genuinely.

When every single child in the world who doesn’t have a home has been adopted, come back to me and talk about surrogacy

I'm assuming you're against IVF as well?

Thank you LemonJello.

Is it just too much messi g with nature? If two men were meant to have a baby wouldn’t it be possible for them to do this?
So... you think two men are not meant to have/raise a baby?

Maybe she wanted to remain hidden and didn't want to be mentioned?

I also hope she is doing well.

Against IVF, insemination, and lesbians having a child one of them carried I guess.

This post is directed solely to the poster who used this expression [gestational carrier].

I've seen the Kardashians and other celebs quoted as using this term - not sure if it is just newly fashionable.

I respond to it in exactly the same way - its use in breeding to protect the "high value" animal makes it entirely inappropriate to use for women acting as surrogates.

But no one has an issue with lesbians having children?

If a lesbian couple circumvented UK surrogacy laws in this way the issue would be exactly the same.

There is no comparison with a lesbian couple where one of them carries and gives birth to the child.

I wouldn't say many people are desperately digging for homophobia. People are asking questions.

Thank you @Broadbeans

Luna I think that is fair. If we decide, as a society, that surrogacy is bad for the children, then it should be stopped. It's true that no one is considering how this child might feel and the only way to find out is when the child is grown and it's too late. Has anyone looked at how children born in this way have fared as adults?

Sorry, forgotten the poster who asked, but yes, I do think that it's tough luck if a surrogate changes her mind, if she is not the biological parent of the baby. I truly believe the parents are the couple whose embryo used.

I think this is one of those things that you can maybe make logical sense as a kind of thought experiment, but the actual brutal reality of it - forcibly removing a baby from a woman who has recently given birth; would you restrain her to the bed? Or arrest her if she refuses to let go of the baby? Maybe you'd get the hospital staff to take the baby while she sleeps? - is pretty indefensible.

Also, my (partial and non-expert understanding) is that the idea that the child would only have two biological parents here is very problematic, as the more we know about the importance of the uterine environment the more we discover that it has life long effects. Women who use donor eggs obviously don't have children who carry any of their own genes, but evidence is beginning to show that they do affect how the child's genes act:
www.bionews.org.uk/page_95263

to all affected by these issues. It’s very uncomfortable reading Daley and husband giving interviews during their surrogate’s pregnancy not actually mentioning her or thanking her, but all about how outrageous it was that they were ‘forced’ to go to the US because (paraphrase) the US allows commercial surrogacy and the backward old UK has all this ‘complex’ regulation around surrogacy.
I think it’s really important to keep an eye on the law Commissions project I linked to upthread- I guess there will be a consultation if they are proposing any changes in the UK around this.