A very compelling reason not to report rape

[GoldenWonderwall]

www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/vulnerable-women-routinely-jailed-false-rape?bfsource=bbf_enuk&utm_term=.dqqYVQ8bn4#.xkj2yRPZQA

I feel sick. I can’t believe that the police and cps use the difficulties in securing rape convictions against women to convict them. Taking a mother away from her baby, causing a mentally ill woman to take her own life. I’m sure there is some sensational reporting here but I’m unsurprised.

What can we do? Is there anything to be done or is it just another big brick in the wall of stfu about rape and sexual assault ladies?

A man not being found guilty or taken to trial for rape does not automatically equal vexatious complainant making shit up. You get shorter sentences and less press if you actually rape someone. It’s an absolute joke.

It’s also very frustrating when it’s all men men men and how they feel. But it’s par for the course as they are the full humans aren’t they.

Thanks, upstart, I was wondering whether I would have to trawl back to find what I wrote about people (wilfully, I suspect) conflating #ibelieveher with presumption of guilt.

I think showing a mote of compassion for the family who lost their daughter would hardly do his “name” any harm whatsoever.

TEMRA is right. In fact, it would do his name far more good than pursuing the vendetta has done.

Thanks, upstart, I was wondering whether I would have to trawl back to find what I wrote about people (wilfully, I suspect) conflating #ibelieveher with presumption of guilt

Not you personally metro but take a look at any thread on Ulster rugby or Chef Evans. There's plenty of posters equating their appearance in court as guilt.

TEMRA is right. In fact, it would do his name far more good than pursuing the vendetta has done

I honestly don't think that unless one has been arrested and spent time in a cell for a crime they didn't commit that it's fair to comment on what you'd do/or what you'd think is right.

People's views of the Ulster rugby defendants were influenced by the Whatsapp conversations the men had after the incident. Regardless of their acquittal, they regarded her as disposable and that would make them very bad people in a lot of people's eyes including mine. The Evans case got a conviction prior to the retrial, and TBH the "evidence" they introduced at the retrial shouldn't have been allowed as the new "witness" didn't see what happened but was there to slut-shame her with details of her sex life after the rape, which is irrelevant because hypersexuality is a common reaction to rape. Keir Starmer (ex-DPP) condemned the decision to admit the "witness".

I honestly don't think that unless one has been arrested and spent time in a cell for a crime they didn't commit that it's fair to comment on what you'd do/or what you'd think is right.

You've been commenting on what you think is reasonable. Have you been arrested and held? If not, then you have no more right to comment than we do. What we think of his actions and how his actions make us feel about him as a person are fair comment. "Reputation" is basically what other people think about you and the thread consensus seems to be that he's a nasty piece of work.

What I've not made at all clear is that the Evans case posters would be correct in calling him a rapist up until his successful appeal. You can't fault people for using the word "guilty" after a verdict has been returned.

My suggestion was only based on what I’d have advised Alexander if he was a friend of mine, I don’t need experience of the inside of a jail cell to do that, just like I do not need personal experience jumping out planes without parachutes to conclude its a bad idea!

Pity for him he doesn’t have better friends as he wouldn’t be staring down the barrel of court costs of £1.4 million and potential bankruptcy!
You are right though a man’s name IS important, but such is achieved through decent, consistent and honourable action. If you have a name based on principles you won’t need to fight constant scurrilous rumors.

Actually fuck it I happen to believe Ched Evans IS a rapist, I’ll say it and he is welcome to take my ass to court with shiny big bells on. Of course the standard of proof is on the balance of probability and NOT beyond reasonable doubt. So he really wants to roll those dice he’s more than welcome...

take a look at any thread on Ulster rugby or Chef Evans. There's plenty of posters equating their appearance in court as guilt.

I think actually there's plenty of posters equating what they themselves said in evidence as proof they don't understand consent and therefore are dangerous to women.

The way those guys behaved is disgusting and I can't believe anyone defends them.

quentin

Yy

@metrorider no, it's not as simple as finding it harder to get laid. It is about make teachers being frightened on being alone in a room with a female pupil, it is about men being frightened of taking an elevator alone with a woman, it is about men having to be worried that their wife or their girlfriend might ruin their life after an argument. Just because it is difficult for us doesn't make it right to make things difficult to men. God knows there are provably men out there who think like you (so because they live in fear of getting reported falsely women should be afraid of making reports lest they are no bekueved). Grow up. Instead of making things worse for men in retaliation we should be trying to make life better for everyone. It's people like you that make me anxious for me sons.

TransExclusionaryMRA Mon 02-Jul-18 02:08:23
Actually fuck it I happen to believe Ched Evans IS a rapist, I’ll say it and he is welcome to take my ass to court with shiny big bells on.

You're the least "MRA" MRA I've ever come across I agree with the above - and as a pp said, my opinion was formed on what the man himself said in court.

Racecardriver - don't be worried for your sons. Statistically they are more likely to be raped by another man than to be falsely accused of rape. If they were to either be falsely accused of rape, or god forbid commit rape (after all, every rapist is someone's son) then they are overwhelmingly likely to get away with it. Only 6% are convicted.

Economou is a shit stain on humanity. Psychopaths like him are the evil dangerous ones who belong in prison, but corruption means they won't, but vulnerable people will.
I absolutely believe he did something wrong. One of the symptoms of a bipolar high is hypersexuality. He at best took advantage of a clearly unwell young woman.
I would not report it if I was raped. Or any crime against me. Police think I am evil criminal scum.I was criminalised when really unwell. Record and mh issues, I'd be destroyed. 😢 RIP Eleanor.

iloveirnbru I've not defamed anyone. She's dead, she can't be defamed.

Crowing about a young person's suicide because it means you can't get into trouble for saying foul things about them.

I'm quite old and jaded but even by internet standards, that is off the scale.

Anxious for my sons ffs. Literally ffs. I have a son and I’m not anxious for him being falsely accused of rape because it is very rare, being accused of rape doesn’t automatically equal a charge, court case or conviction and behaving like a respectful human being who sees women as human beings will result in less scenarios where rape can be reasonably have said to have occurred where it has not.

I worry about my daughter. She currently has a 1 in 4 chance of being raped or assaulted, which will be higher whilst she’s not an adult. If this happens to her, the attacker is highly unlikely to have any comeback to them. If she did go to the police there’s a small chance that, like the women this thread was started to discuss, she could end up in prison herself if someone decides she’s untruthful.

Why can’t we talk about women on a thread about injustice against women in feminism chat? If you’re insisting about making this about men can you have a little look inside yourself and see why you are doing that?

she could end up in prison herself if someone decides she’s untruthful

....like a jury ?

If someone was raped and the police and cps decided to prosecute them for a false rape accusation and the jury convicted based on the evidence provided then what can you do? As someone pointed out, evidence was withheld unnecessarily from one trial which ended in the woman in question taking her own life, rather than a verdict one way or another.

If I say you raped me and you say you didn’t and there’s no definitive evidence from the rape but there is police recorded evidence that I said you raped me then it’s easier to say I’m a liar (as there is evidence of what I said) than it is to prove your a rapist.

False accusations of rape are rare and no higher than other crimes. However as a society we’ve decided women lie about rape to get back at men or cover their tracks so we’re very comfortable talking about poor men and how these nasty evil witches are ruining lives. The two women in the original article had their lives ruined, one permanently.

it is about men being frightened of taking an elevator alone with a woman

If you google "elevatorgate" you will discover that many men think it their absolute right to follow a woman into an elevator at 4am and invite her to their room.
You have the who is afraid of being alone with who in the elevator backwards.
If men were taught to extend the same common courtesy and respect to strange women that they do to strange men there would be a great deal less living in fear all around.

@GoldenWonderwall

it’s easier to say I’m a liar (as there is evidence of what I said) than it is to prove your a rapist

...and that then your evidence is flatly contradicted by other evidence - as in the Brooker case, where there was independent evidence that her ex- was elsewhere at the time she alleged - according to this Guardian report (not a big fan of newspaper reporting, but I wasn't at the trial and the appeal against sentence isn't available on BAILII)

I think most women have had the experience of feeling uneasy on their own in an elevator with a man. I doubt many men have had that.

I would rather that my son was falsely accused of rape than my daughter was actually raped.

If I was raped I would get the DNA material evidence collected but ask not
To proceed. I think the only way to Get a conviction if there is any element of doubt is if someone else is also proceeding. Or I would aim for gbh. Gbh seems to have a better conviction rate. No way would I go through the truma of a rape trial.

Because of the pornificarion of culture Internal injuries that would be are GBH are seen as just rough sex. So what would have help in a rape case before holds less weight.

If you sustained grievous bodily harm as a result of a rape, then I think the Crown would have a pretty strong case with which to prosecute.

If I was traumatised and couldn’t remember an exact date but you pushed and insisted that you needed one so I gave you one I thought could be the right one, but it wasn’t, am I a liar who fabricates evidence?

Am I so clever and manipulative I can make up a litany of plausible accusations against a totally innocent man but so daft and thoughtless I pick dates for events that couldn’t ever have been possible?

The Ulster case showed you could have internal injuries and be pouring with blood and it can still be interpreted as consensual. Nowt to do with the huge amounts of violent porn freely available I imagine.

If I was traumatised and couldn’t remember an exact date but you pushed and insisted that you needed one so I gave you one I thought could be the right one, but it wasn’t, am I a liar who fabricates evidence?

Nobody is expected to have total recall - in particular people often do not remember dates way back in the past. The Courts certainly recognise this obvious fact. I wouldn't have expected an investigating officer to have 'insisted' upon a date. However, the more recent an event, the more a witness is likely to be able to recall it. Also, witness statements have a narrative to them containing events that are a source of collaborative evidence.

The Ulster case showed you could have internal injuries and be pouring with blood and it can still be interpreted as consensual

You may well be right - however, the following snippett was taken from the Irish Times

Overall the medical evidence was of little benefit to jurors one way or the other. Both doctors agreed the injuries did not prove penile penetration or a lack of consent.

There were two doctors, one instructed by the prosecution and the other for the defense.

Unfortunately, that mahogany bellend in the White House is proof that allegations (false or true) do not harm men’s reputations.