A very compelling reason not to report rape

[GoldenWonderwall]

www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/vulnerable-women-routinely-jailed-false-rape?bfsource=bbf_enuk&utm_term=.dqqYVQ8bn4#.xkj2yRPZQA

I feel sick. I can’t believe that the police and cps use the difficulties in securing rape convictions against women to convict them. Taking a mother away from her baby, causing a mentally ill woman to take her own life. I’m sure there is some sensational reporting here but I’m unsurprised.

What can we do? Is there anything to be done or is it just another big brick in the wall of stfu about rape and sexual assault ladies?

Instead of teaching our sons to fear women we should create a system where our daughters don't need to fear reporting a rape (and know to do so) because there are no consequences for them or anyone else unless the court find the accusation true.

It occurs to me that if you are teaching your sons to fear women instead of teaching them not to rape you are part of the problem.

Poor men. Having to chuck £1000s at suing the relatives of dead women who have not been found guilty in a court of law. Awh.

There’s no bad advice in not engaging in sexual acts with people you don’t know very well because you have no idea what they’re going to do. If men can’t shag with impunity it’s not the end of the world is it?

But anyway, it’s the women in this particular instance I care about. How is separating a non-violent mother from a 9 month old baby in anyway justice?

Falsely accuse a man of rape

Why are you so convinced the accusation was false?

Are you saying that a father should disbelieve his own daughter when she tells him she's been raped?

And again this was the libel action that the judge rebuked him over.

She didn't choose to kill herself. She had a pre-existing psychiatric condition, her psychiatrist said she wasn't fit to stand trial, and the CPS ignored the medical report. The CPS killed her. Someone who is that mentally ill cannot be held accountable for their suicide, she lacked capacity to make rational decisions because she was sick.

FFS, released without charge is read as "almost certainly innocent" by most people, including me, even for a rape. His actions afterwards makes me revise that view in his case, and not favourably.

Has no one learned anything from Barbara Streisand?

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad

I know you like to shoe horn these in wherever you can, but where's the male violence here?

11th rule of feminism. No matter how much evidence there is that a man has not committed a crime, he is still guilty anyway. Because he's a man

I think the MRA is repeatedly defaming persons on this thread to get Mumsnet involved in a legal imbroglio.

Why are you so convinced the accusation was false?

Because the CPS did. Because even with political intervention to make prosecuting false rape claims needing a higher threshold than all others, they still reached that threshold.

How is separating a non-violent mother from a 9 month old baby in anyway justice?

Because she committed a crime. Not particularly hard.

11th rule of feminism. No matter how much evidence there is that a man has not committed a crime, he is still guilty anyway. Because he's a man

Oh thats ones just silly...

@Racecardriver: The only way a man can defend himself from a false accusation is by making sure that he is never alone with a woman (kind of v like how a woman was once expected to never br alone with a man to avoid sexual assault). Do you really think that it OK to put men into that position?

Women spend their whole fucking lives trying to defend ourselves from rape. It colours most of the decisions I make, right down which windows I leave open at night in hot weather. So yes, it's A-OK to put men in that position. Oh no, they might find it harder to get laid. Boohoo.

I think the MRA is repeatedly defaming persons on this thread to get Mumsnet involved in a legal imbroglio

14th rule of feminism. If anyone disagrees with me they're a MRA/TRA.

I've not defamed anyone. She's dead, she can't be defamed.

That is an uniquely MRA approach. He is innocent of a crime because he was not convicted but she is guilty of a crime because she was not convicted.

@iloveirnbru I'm taking being called "disgusting" by someone who thinks vexatious libel claims against grieving fathers are ok as a compliment.

A severely mentally ill woman is not accountable for her own suicide because she's not able to make rational decisions. The same would go if it was a man. The CPS should have heeded her psychiatrist's advice. They, ultimately, are the reason why her case never saw court. Of course, if he'd just let it go in the first place, he wouldn't be doing a great job of convincing all of us how horrible he is and most of us would never have even heard of the case. As I said, Barbara Streisand...

That is an uniquely MRA approach. He is innocent of a crime because he was not convicted but she is guilty of a crime because she was not convicted.

YY. And he is so innocent and has been driven, driven I tell you to making these websites that would be libelous if the subject weren't dead, whereas she is an evil scheming harridan for having the temerity to be so mentally-ill that suicide seemed like a good idea.

Never mind that he chose to make the websites, whereas suicide of a severely-ill bipolar patient isn't a choice.

metrorider

Yy

That is an uniquely MRA approach. He is innocent of a crime because he was not convicted but she is guilty of a crime because she was not convicted

He was not convicted because he was not even charged with an offence. She was.

As I said earlier, whenever a thread about rape comes up here, posters fall over themselves to tell us how only a tiny proportion of rapists ever see the inside of a court room, and it logically follows that if they're charged they did it. (Regardless of the verdict) Shall we have a guess why we're not applying that to Eleanor de freitas?

17th rule of feminism. Do not apply the same standards to men and women in law. Ever. See rule 1 for further details.

Because the CPS did.

Wow. That's brilliant. Let's just abolish all criminal trials right now because clearly the CPS believing someone is guilty is enough to toss someone in jail and throw away the key.

Falsely accuse a man of rape

Why are you so convinced the accusation was false?

This is worth highlighting. She was never convicted, there's no guarantee that she would have been had she gone to court, and she deserves presumption of innocence, even in death.

He was not convicted because he was not even charged with an offence. She was.

Being charged with an offence does not = guilty.

and it logically follows that if they're charged they did it.

Citation or retract, @iloveirnbru.

there's no guarantee that she would have been had she gone to court

I guarantee that if she had stood trial and been found not guilty there would still be people screaming for blood. Innocent until proven guilty only works one way in some people's deluded minds.

hall we have a guess why we're not applying that to Eleanor

You speak for yourself

I take it case by case when i look at these cases

Freind of mine was falsely accused of sexual assault so i know that it happens for all sorts of reasons

Come on mate someone lost their fucking life, whatever she did/didn’t do death was in no way a proportionate outcome. Besides she was never found guilty, so legally and in every other sense we treat her as innocent. Just a little tip if ever one her relatives googled her name and found this thread I’d rather nothing with my name attached added to their grief and sadness, just try to show a modicum of restraint and class.

If this Alexander chap was a friend of mine I’d advise him to let this go. I mean really? I think showing a mote of compassion for the family who lost their daughter would hardly do his “name” any harm whatsoever.

Hand on heart if I was in his position and I’d felt I’d been maliciously lied about being a rapist I’d be inclined to bring a private prosecution, although probably a civil one as opposed to a criminal one. However if she then went on to kill herself I would probably feel a bit shit about it, and give her relatives a pass for expressing their grief and take it all on the chin.

If he really IS that heartless it’s still rather stupid of him as I suspect to her parents there is literally NOTHING he can actually do that can trump the loss of their daughter and it’s a colossal waste of his money for him to even try....

and it logically follows that if they're charged they did it.

No, thats your assumption. The actual position has been stated on page 1 of this thread;
''...recognising that presumption of the defendant's innocence and #ibelieveher can and should coexist. The victim has been raped but may be mistaken as to the identity of the attacker. The victim may not clearly remember details of the attack and that makes it impossible to prove the criminal intent and so guilt cannot be conclusively proved. The victim still deserves all support and to be believed, but that stops short of jailing the perp because our justice system is supposed to err on the side of presumption of innocence. ''

Spot on trans

And another good post metro and plants