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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Janice Turner in the Times today

52 replies

Igneococcus · 30/06/2018 06:47

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-gender-battle-is-harder-to-solve-than-brexit-0jc0pn867?shareToken=cf38efff426e9e97b2ec5749c66230c0

OP posts:
Igneococcus · 30/06/2018 06:58

Comments are (at least currently) unmoderated which is quite unusual, all the recent similar comments threads were moderated.

OP posts:
Datun · 30/06/2018 07:08

Good article. Not sensationalist. Totally understands the point that if a GRC is never to be asked for as proof then exemptions can't be applied.

Igneococcus · 30/06/2018 07:17

She is very good at making the issue clear for people who don't know much about it which is really important and in a major newspaper too.

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Writersblock2 · 30/06/2018 07:26

Go Janice!

Ifonlyus · 30/06/2018 07:33

Excellent piece. Very shareable too. There's nothing she has written to argue against if you're a reasonable person.

Cuntysnark · 30/06/2018 07:34

That was a good read-as are the majority of the comments. Thank you for sharing.

ChattyLion · 30/06/2018 07:38

Another JT article that hits the nail on the head in a way that draws in people who haven’t been following this issue. She is great. Flowers

ChattyLion · 30/06/2018 07:42

And now can we have a web chat with Penny Mordaunt?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3287601-MNHQ-Please-can-we-invite-Penny-Mordaunt-MP-for-a-web-chat

Macareaux · 30/06/2018 07:44

Thank you, Thank you Janice Flowers

Thank you too for pointing out that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder. Just like any other example of someone believing they are something they're not.

If you read this thread please can you consider writing your next article on encouraging parents to go into their children's schools and find out what is being pushed on the trans agenda by organisations such as G I R E S, Educate and Celebrate and others. Kids from kindergarten up are essentially being told they can choose whether to be a boy or a girl or neither.

Macareaux · 30/06/2018 07:49

Hi Chatty

I've reported your post to highlight it to MNHQ to ask if they can let us know whether they will invite her. There weren't a huge number of responses to my thread on it but now we have a date for the consultation I'm sure more people would support the idea.

LittleLebowski · 30/06/2018 07:52

It is impossible to overstate how much I love Janice Turner. Thanks for the share token.

thebewilderness · 30/06/2018 07:53

Someone in the comments is already screaming for an apology because she said mental disorder.

Igneococcus · 30/06/2018 07:57

That person always pops up in the trans article comments thebewilderness (but so do I and a few other regular commentators tbf)

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AngryAttackKittens · 30/06/2018 08:15

They can scream all they like, it's still true.

EmpressOfSpartacus · 30/06/2018 08:20

Silver Lady always does great work in the comments.

Love Janice Turner.

Starkstaring · 30/06/2018 08:23

I want to marry her!

womanformallyknownaswoman · 30/06/2018 09:24

Brilliant article

hackmum · 30/06/2018 09:31

She’s superb. Thank you, Janice.

MorbidMuch · 30/06/2018 09:35

Excellent article. Shame the comments often have lots of men saying that this is no big deal and there are more serious/important issues to worry about (because it doesn't affect their 49%).

3DSpex · 30/06/2018 09:37

Really sensible article.

boatyardblues · 30/06/2018 09:52

Agree, Janice has been rock solidly on point with her recent articles on the GRA reforms. She’s doing sterling work. Star

CatsAfterSlumber · 30/06/2018 10:25

It is an excellent, helpful article.

I particularly liked the swipe at Maria Miller.

ChattyLion · 30/06/2018 10:33

Hi Macareaux.

I would also add, also if a journalist could FOI to local Authorities then they could build up a national picture of how many schools have been lobbied by trans rights activists.

TRA lobbying children at their schools with a political agenda is wrong. The TRA agenda has an antithetical relationship to biological facts. It worryingly (against NHS advice) advocates for an ‘affirming’ approach to young people and children who express gender confusion/identity questions. This may be uniquely relevant issue to their audience in a primary or secondary school. (There isn’t a gender critical, medical or scientific speaker invited at these sessions btw. It’s not presented as a political or ethical debate). They also send schools ‘information packs’ ie to be used as teaching materials as well as offering speakers.

TRA lobbying states that those who question their orthodoxy are motivated by ‘hate’ or ‘transphobia’- ignoring that there is an enormous clash of rights presented by their beliefs.

This includes around safeguarding children and young people, who incontrovertibly will be put at risk in certain settings if legal gender self ID is brought in. TRAs ignore also that many transsexual people also object to this agenda and fear a loss of the support and services they need if legal gender self ID is brought in.

However, we know that most young people who express confusion or questioning will mature further, change their minds and will later be content with their adult bodies.

A small minority will be diagnosed with body/gender dysmorphia which persists into adulthood and which will need appropriate professional emotional support and treatment.

We don’t know the harm yet of giving children the offlabel drugs used as ‘puberty blockers’, or of long term exposure to opposite- sex hormones or of having surgeries or whether these steps will make people who have gender identity issues feel emotionally better.

Also how do the advocates of rushing into drugs and surgery for children and young people, square this with the fact that the big majority of older men who later in life identify as ‘women’ keep their dicks, and very happily so?

And why the argument to rush to blockers, surgery and hormones for kids, given that other trans people don’t make any interventions or efforts to change their previous outward appearance, and are quite happy with that (Danielle Muscato etc)?

Why is it that kids that should be encouraged to hurry into making permanent changes to their bodies, never going through puberty, not acquiring normal adult physical and mental maturity and (if acquired via puberty) potentially then surgically removing normal mature adult sex characteristics and organs, obliterating their future fertility via surgery? There isn’t an equivalent TRA advocacy for adults to make permanent interventions like that.

What kind of political lobby would want to advocate strongly for there to be children and young people taking drugs and hormones and having surgeries, with the end result that these individuals are in time, of adult stature and adult age, but retaining their prepubescent features and without the normal physical and emotional maturation that happens at puberty. ?

What kind of agenda would be pushing for that? Hmm

Schools don’t normally allow anti-science, anti-evidence politicians in to try to persuade children of their ‘alternative facts’. They don’t normally let them seek to police children's language and thinking, using the manipulative threat that non-compliance is ‘hateful’. They wouldn’t even invite a speaker like that to a sixth form debate.

Why then is this lobby any different?

ChattyLion · 30/06/2018 10:34

Apologies for the horrendously long post.

uniquehornsonly · 30/06/2018 10:57

Great article.

Some of the comments are pleasingly sarky Grin

Janice Turner in the Times today
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