Diva magazine is trans inclusive

[daimbars]

Statement on trans inclusion in a tweet from Diva, the UK's biggest lesbian magazine.
I'm pleased they've made their position clear, and support it.

"The proposal of a third space which would protect trans people from violent men while also preserving the safety, privacy, and dignity of women and girls .... "
From a purely mathematical point of view, hard to see why this isn't the best option all round. Keeping women-only areas women-only allows possible stray male perps to be spotted. Adding a third gender neutral space gives transwomen, camp gay men etc etc, a safer option than using the gents. Also means that transmen don't have to make a choice between using the ladies (and worrying people), or trying to use the gents and making themselves more vulnerable if spotted. In terms of actual risk-reduction for those using the gender neutral, and not increasing the risk for those using the ladies, and factoring in the numbers involved, such a risk assessment is surely the winner? Chaps even get to keep their urinals, which they seem to like. Who looses apart from those for whom validation and entitlement matters more than actual safety of all concerned?

(I would attempt a Bayesian analysis of the above, but that is left as a trivial exercise for the reader..............maths/physics joke, those in the know will get it )

AAK, I'm already quite clear that I oppose the imposition of males in women only spaces regardless of how they identify. The honour system has been killed by abuse.

I agree, Prawn

Zero tolerance now. And spidey-senses on full alert.

Shot themselves in the foot.

I think that pretty much all GC women used to be a lot more "accepting" and willing to compromise than we are now. Trans activists told me to listen to transwomen, and I did. Not the best suggestion they could have made, as it turns out.

Depressing, but also resolve stiffening.

Yep. I don't compromise with people who cannot perceive other people's rights to boundaries.

timelady "By 'reacted badly', I meant accusing the person of voyeurism or flashing, not suggesting that mothers or grannies in the changing rooms would beat the person up.....But in this day and age, I can easily see the mother or grannie being hailed before the court accused of a hate crime. And I don't believe a jury would convict."

It seems like you have got the wrong end of the stick with what hate crime actually is in practice. First, there has to be a crime of one of the usual sorts. The hate bit is where the crime is perceived to be motivated by prejudice or hostility to (e.g.) transgender people. A criminal act can be flagged as a hate crime and if convicted, an offence with a hate crime element can receive stricter sentencing.

I think that pretty much all GC women used to be a lot more "accepting" and willing to compromise than we are now. Trans activists told me to listen to transwomen, and I did. Not the best suggestion they could have made, as it turns out

This. And oh how much worse the new rules have made it.

Enough of this some of us are parents too do you think that we would not put the safety of children first above all else. This is going to far you are just hurting your own cause now and trying to hurt other people you don't seem to think that there are people on the other side of this debate and they have lives and families. We are not some mysterious group of monsters would you can just accuse of the vilest of things with no thought to how that effects us an four friends and families.

I have tried to discuss the points you want to make but now you have stopped making points and are just accusing people if things this as stopped being a debate and is now just people hating with no reason on. Another group of people. And this is not even everyone on here there are lots of good people trying to do what they believe is right but a few just don't seem to care they will do anything to win this but winning at what cost

Parents don't want their daughters in a changing room/shower with a stranger who has a penis.
Because risk assessments and safeguarding trump adults feelings.

This thread has proved one very important thing and something lurkers will have read. Little girls privacy, dignity and safety can just fuck right off!

Absolutely. And all in plain sight.

Not convinced that Bespin would be the best judge of what's good for our "cause" in general, honestly. It's the general public we're trying to reach, and parents in particular, who care very much about safeguarding issues.

Really you can have this thread, all you can do is offer personal attacks and repetition you have lost sight of the fact you are debating with real people and not just the idea of something. We go in changing rooms and some of us take our daughters on there because we go swimming too and parents of trans children take them in there too cos they like to go swimming too because they are children. We are mothers and fathers and aunties and uncles and we do what evenone else in the world does. When you other other people you loose sigh of there humanity

You, my little spinning friend forget about safeguarding. Thankfully for our children, the Police do not!

Just keep penises out of women and girls' spaces, that's all.

We say NO.

No penises in female-only spaces - for reasons of women and girls' personal safety, dignity, privacy etc etc.

Campaign for a third unisex space. Everyone who feels comfortable can use that, and as time goes on it will become the norm.

Bespin

Stop imagining everyone is out to get you ffs.

I had to be DBS checked for a job. I didn't go off alarming, acting affronted and saying "I'm just doing my job! You don't think I'm a predator, do you? The very idea!"

Safeguarding doesn't give a toss about how you individually rate your risk potential.

It's not personal.

God, it's so bloody simple. Yet again, a daimbars thread has become another litany of women saying 'no', and others saying "But... But... But...".

All the "If you prick us, do we not bleed?" stuff is entirely irrelevant. What is relevant is the "If you have a prick, no entry" stuff.

We're not against your humanity, your gender identity, your method of cooking macaroni cheese - we just don't want penis in certain places.

It’s almost like they’ve lost sight of women’s humanity. We have feelings too.

Datun You're so much more polite than me.

You know that feeling when you read a post, it really tickles your funny bone but you know it's going to get zapped? Just happened.

I always imagine Datun taking breaks to go stand in a small room and go "what the fucking fuck is this bollocks dear god what is wrong with people #@#$%#$%^#$!!!". And then deep yoga breath and back to the calm, measured comments designed to win over those put off by the rest of us sweary bastards.

AAK Being a sweary bastard is so much simpler. Datun has the patience of a saint.

but a few just don't seem to care they will do anything to win this but winning at what cost

That few would be the trans activists dear. And the cost? Women and female childrens privacy and safety. Its a high cost. But one that doesn't seem to be valued these days.