Who is standing up for women and girls?

[loveyouradvice]

So far, it looks like some brave individuals, various religious organisations and the newly formed Womans Place, Transgender Trend and FairPlay for women

Where are all the established women's charities, especially those with a strong history of campaigning? Someone to answer Stonewall and others powerfully?

What is the Fawcett Society doing?

Who else is there?

All three of these factions -- the quasi-feminists, the political right and the religious fundamentalists are quite happy to share each other off about things like whether "a wife must submit to her husband" or whether "feminists have turned all men into either wimps or cads

Do you remember damn's early posts where damn spent a long time berating us for swearing?

Do you think the mainstream groups will make a comeback, or is it up to the grassroots ones, who we are seeing increase in number - will they increase in scale too?

I honestly don't know. But what I definitely know is the best charitable/outreach work is done by organisations who know and understand their service users.

Since the big corporate charities and third sector orgs are clearly utterly blind to their own service users and prefer to spend money virtue signalling instead, I shan't be giving them any of my money.

OldCrone
°You are absolutely right. Transgender people deserve to have full human rights, as do women.^
Let's hold onto that thought
We must, however, think carefully about situations where women's rights are in conflict with trans rights.
There aren't any.

Women and girls have the right to have some spaces which are exclusively female. That means that male-bodied people should not be allowed to enter those spaces. A person born male, and who retains male genitalia has no right to be in those spaces.
So I, and any other woman who does not achieve some unspecified standard of appearance must subject themselves to a grope test? Carried out by who? Some "security" thug?

This is not anti-trans. Transgender people have the right to use spaces which are appropriate for those who share their anatomy. If they are unhappy with this, they also have the right to campaign for another space.

We must, however, think carefully about situations where women's rights are in conflict with trans rights.
Damn respsonse: There aren't any

Perhaps you are not aware of these examples?
Please do read before continuing your assertion.

inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-woman-transgender-nurse-smear-test/

www.lancasterguardian.co.uk/news/lancaster-mum-with-fear-of-men-locked-on-hospital-ward-with-transgender-patient-1-8963648

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/genderneutral-toilets-my-daughter-was-called-selfish-for-wanting-girlsonly-loos-at-school-cwth60b2c

it is better to identify and support small grassroots campaigning groups and charities than it is to go anywhere near anything in the corporate sector.

I agree. Perhaps it's a good thing that the Labour party and Amnesty International have inspired so many of us to cancel our monthly direct debits, encouraging us to redirect the cash to where it can do more good.

Just saying things doesn't make them true. But you know that. The situations where women's rights clash with trans rights are numerous. I don't accept they have the "right" to violate my boundaries. But if they pass I won't know, will I? As with effeminate men who are not trans. I want to be able to exclude them where there is no doubt. Because female spaces are for female people.

So I, and any other woman who does not achieve some unspecified standard of appearance must subject themselves to a grope test?

You really are clutching at straws, now. I'm talking about people who are clearly male, as in the examples R0wantrees has given. I'm also talking about situations where people are naked, and their sex is known, as in school changing rooms.

Do you really see no conflict between a girl's right to a changing room which is for female bodied children only, and a male-bodied child's right to use the changing room of the sex they want to be?

Brandon Cox, Jimmy Seville, Oxfam and Kids company taught me to stop donating to charity.

I will never forget the MacMillan cancer charity appropriation of the ALS bucket challenge.

The behaviour of some other charity staff and their attitude towards vulnerable people keeps me avoiding them.

Posie Parker asks:

"Does my 11year old daughter have the right to go into a female changing room and not see an adult penis?"

speech here:
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=23&v=CvdJ1VEdC7I

Additional very serious examples in this thread (includes the murder of a vulnerable women reported by an experienced worker in homeless services and her concerns)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3266198-No-True-Transwoman-transadvocates-question-whether-TW-is-genuine-after-said-TW-sexually-harasses-women-in-homeless-shelter

Recent Times article:

"Prison governors say that there is a risk to women’s safety if transgender sex offenders held in men’s prisons are transferred to female jails."

"Andrea Albutt, president of the Prison Governors Association, told The Mail on Sunday: “I have seen women feeling very threatened by transgender prisoners’ presence . . . To put men who declare they are women into women’s prisons would be very damaging.”

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3269144-Prison-Governors-speak-directly-of-their-concerns-for-vulnerable-women

Published on WPUK website:
(extracts)
"I’m writing as a feminist who has devoted over two decades of my life to ending violence against women (VAW). I’ve worked in frontline services in both domestic abuse and sexual violence services across the country and now I head up a VAW sector charity...

"As someone who has worked with many survivors of violence over the last two decades, I am terrified – both professionally and personally – about the impact of self ID on ensuring safe spaces are available to women who have experienced and are escaping male violence. Even without the legal changes to the GRA, gender inclusive policies are already happening in many areas, these changes are ahead of the law and already upon us. Moreover they do not appear to be slowing down.

Organisations in the VAW sector can use the Equality Act 2010 for the protection of female-only spaces and I absolutely think we should. I’ve worked with so many female survivors of violence who have been left terrified of men, and who relied on female-only support to heal from the trauma they experienced. The sex-based nature of the crimes they’ve experienced necessitates this being women who share their histories, experiences, vulnerabilities and, yes, biologies. So it is right that VAW-service providers have a strong case to make for protections that enable them to employ and provide access to women on the basis of their sex...." continues

womansplaceuk.org/the-silencing-of-feminists-silences-survivors/

Do you really see no conflict between a girl's right to a changing room which is for female bodied children only, and a male-bodied child's right to use the changing room of the sex they want to be?

Segregation of trans people is abhorrent and should never be entertained.

So where do you put a trans girl on estrogen? And that's what we have to consider - we can't assume that children won't receive hormones before leaving school.

Segregation of trans people is abhorrent and should never be entertained.

You do pick your words - abhorrent? Come on now.

If a male bodied person cannot cope with being called a male bodied person, then perhaps they need to seek some proper therapy, not expect all female bodies people to fall at their feet and letting all boundaries down just to appease them. It is disgusting the way you are making out that females WITH boundaries that are there for a reason, would be abhorrent for keeping those boundaries in place.

Organisations in the VAW sector can use the Equality Act 2010 for the protection of female-only spaces and I absolutely think we should. I’ve worked with so many female survivors of violence who have been left terrified of men, and who relied on female-only support to heal from the trauma they experienced. The sex-based nature of the crimes they’ve experienced necessitates this being women who share their histories, experiences, vulnerabilities and, yes, biologies. So it is right that VAW-service providers have a strong case to make for protections that enable them to employ and provide access to women on the basis of their sex...." continues

I think it is time to start pushing back on this. This is not a, new problem so why haven't organisations updated their facilities to provide either individual resources or rooms or at least smaller rooms? Have they sought grants from the Big Lottery Fund and elsewhere ? Have women's groups lobbied the Government for grants to modernise? Or is it that they are complacent if they turn trans women away? When there is money, do they use it to modernise or do they use it to pay staff rather than rely on volunteers?

In some case I suspect that organisations have done their best to modernise and maybe they need some time but in other cases I suspect that organisations claim that having trans women is a big problem but with very little evidence that they have tried hard to make their facility inclusive. Those I don't think should be able show that excluding trans women is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim because one suspects that the barrier is ideological in nature, not practical.

You do pick your words - abhorrent? Come on now.

Yes, abhorrent. Segregation of people because society finds them difficult, especially if it finds their biology difficult, is repugnant and vile.

Here in Canada, it seems it's like a patchwork and Van Rape Relief seems to be the only women's org that stood up but there is the Vancouver Women's Library, who of course got attacked by the neoliberals and a tall guy who threatened women in their space and tore shit off the walls.

There's TWO women's centres within walking distance of me and I'm not totally sure of their policies since I don't visit them often and only for things like women's products like pads because pads are too damned expensive for so many disabled women like me.

Snappity

The comment you seem keen to challenge comes from,

"I’m writing as a feminist who has devoted over two decades of my life to ending violence against women (VAW). I’ve worked in frontline services in both domestic abuse and sexual violence services across the country and now I head up a VAW sector charity.."

Perhaps you missed this?

Perhaps you don't have experience of Women's refuges and associated services?

Perhaps your opinion might benefit from being better informed?

This is not a, new problem so why haven't organisations updated their facilities to provide either individual resources or rooms or at least smaller rooms?

Why would they need smaller rooms? Genuinely don’t understand what that would fix

Perhaps your opinion might benefit from being better informed?

Or maybe the writer could outline what they have done and are doing to make their charity inclusive of trans women?

Why would they need smaller rooms? Genuinely don’t understand what that would fix

Because if for instance there were 6 rooms with (say) half kept for women with actual issues of being with trans women, the service could be inclusive while still meeting the need if some women had an actual problem.

Because if for instance there were 6 rooms with (say) half kept for women with actual issues of being with trans women, the service could be inclusive while still meeting the need if some women had an actual problem.

Snappity I am really encouraged to see you advocating for the privacy and dignity of women here!

So where do you put a trans girl on estrogen? And that's what we have to consider - we can't assume that children won't receive hormones before leaving school.

How many such children are there in the UK? I'm sure a separate facility can be found for a child with a penis who is taking cross-sex hormones. Children under 16 should not be taking them at all.

Or maybe the writer could outline what they have done and are doing to make their charity inclusive of trans women?

Why can't transwomen campaign and fundraise for their own facilities? This is what women have done. Why do transwomen feel entitled to use the services set up by women for women instead of getting together to set up their own services for their own needs?