Who is standing up for women and girls?

[loveyouradvice]

So far, it looks like some brave individuals, various religious organisations and the newly formed Womans Place, Transgender Trend and FairPlay for women

Where are all the established women's charities, especially those with a strong history of campaigning? Someone to answer Stonewall and others powerfully?

What is the Fawcett Society doing?

Who else is there?

I agree.

If they think that, you can't take anything they say as being real or truthful.

I agree. I think they are a willing liar or have some limitations, which as you say stop me taking them seriously. Owen Jones is now someone I now look at differently, it's been a helpful exercise to see him for who he is.

SarahAr this thread is about identifying those who want protect the safety and dignity of women and girls. I'm not sure why you would want to derail such an important discussion. Particularly if you believe that transwomen are women?

...this thread is about identifying those who want protect the safety and dignity of women and girls

So many threads are being derailed.

I always though 'hard of thinking' means being limited by a stubborn thought pattern, being unwilling to pick apart your stance, look at the situation from scratch, a lack of empathy and insight. An example would be Corbyn and his behaviour towards a certain religious group.

It is really quite fascinating to see the muddled thinking on display.
Everyone knows that, clownfish gubbins aside, humans cannot change sex. So the Activist contingent says, "Well, no, humans can't change sex!" and then pretend that that male bodied individual has always been female by virtue of the magic of feelz.

And then when rational individuals insist that it is important to protect the rights and safety of women and girls, the answer from the Activist contingent is not "Yes, entirely right, no quibble!" which one might expect if they were just 'another kind of woman'.
Instead we find them belittling and dismissing the obvious moral good of protecting women's and girl's rights.

So, rather than accepting that a young teen girl has the right to feel secure in her privacy when she undresses, their first port of call is not to unequivocally agree as you might expect a woman to do in solidarity with another female; it is to list reasons why the rights of the young teen girl may be over-ridden for them.

When someone's response to the assertion of fair and reasonable women's rightsize is to explain why they are so special the rules don't apply to them, it brings into very sharp relief the bullying narcissism of the Activist contingent. And also reveals the lie that the people involved are any kind of woman at all.

Not at all sure how the word 'rightsize' has squeezed into my post there!!

Who is standing up for women and girls?
Oh, I think the majority of us are. It's only a tiny minority that have diverted their attention to attacking trans people instead.

The "mainstream" women's groups are struggling for funding already with cuts to public service budgets and more pressure on trusts and foundations, they're worried about the impact on their funding.

Important point. And again, related to the pomo takeover in our liberal establishment. I'm really becoming more and more entrenched in the idea that it is better to identify and support small grassroots campaigning groups and charities than it is to go anywhere near anything in the corporate sector.

Isn't that interesting? No addressing the issues of young teen girl's discomfort or any of the other things like refuges, rape counselling, prisons, single sex healthcare provision etc.

Nope, the most important thing is whether trans people perceive themselves to be attacked. Your slip is showing...

Not at all sure how the word 'rightsize' has squeezed into my post there!

Even your phone is pomo-addled with regard to the meaning of words!

Serfisafleur
I know what you're saying, none of the expected women's orgs are standing up for women including the WEP.
That's because all the main women's organisations recognise that attacking trans women has nothing whatsoever to do with supporting non-trans women.

FloralBunting
Isn't that interesting? No addressing the issues of young teen girl's discomfort or any of the other things like refuges, rape counselling, prisons, single sex healthcare provision etc.
I have addressed those things many times before.
The only people who are responsible for making young girls (and old girls!) worries about Transsexuals in loos and changing rooms are the anti-trans activists concocting stories in order to incite more hatred.
They are the ones responsible for the fear --not transsexuals who are simply exercising the same right to pee that we have slways had.

The "mainstream" women's groups are struggling for funding already with cuts to public service budgets and more pressure on trusts and foundations, they're worried about the impact on their funding.

Important point. And again, related to the pomo takeover in our liberal establishment. I'm really becoming more and more entrenched in the idea that it is better to identify and support small grassroots campaigning groups and charities than it is to go anywhere near anything in the corporate sector.

Lang Yes this is important. Do you think the mainstream groups will make a comeback, or is it up to the grassroots ones, who we are seeing increase in number - will they increase in scale too?

Hmm, again, repeated belittling of women's concerns by painting them as fantasies. And inaccurate, too, as the concern is clearly not about 'transsexuals in the women's toilets' it is concern about the removal of single sex spaces and men in women's spaces.
And I utterly refuse to be drawn into the wedge issue of toilets, actually, because that is not the crux of the matter, though I understand how useful it is as a totem to the Activist crowd.
You may well have addressed all the other important issues I raised, but I rather suspect your 'addressing' will have been the same dismissal and discounting of concerns as it has been here.

Wasn't it great when all the sexist fuckers behind this movement left Mumsnet alone, thinking we were a bunch of empty headed bovine types chattering about prams? I miss those days.

MyAuntyBadger
SarahAr 'Transphobes?' Even you must realise what a completely meaningless word that now is. Do you know what a phobia is? How can The Daily Mail or The Times have a phobia? They are inanimate objects. Are you Norman Tebbit's therapist? Or do you just class anyone who supports women and girls as having a mental health condition?
The Mail and Times are written by people. Whether those people are genuinely transphobic or whether they are merely pretending to be for commercial gain is impossible to tell. But they are certainly pushing an openly transphobic agenda.

Supporting women and girls is not connected in any way with anti-trans activism. One hàs only to look at some of the anti-trans activists who have chosen to hang their hatred on the "religion" peg, such as "Christian Concern", or the alt-right and notso-alt-right such as "Conservative woman". All three of these factions the quasi-feminists, the political right and the religious fundamentalists are quite happy to share each other off about things like whether "a wife must submit to her husband" or whether "feminists have turned all men into either wimps or cads

Damnthatonestakentryanother2
Supporting women and girls is not connected in any way with anti-trans activism.

You are absolutely right. Transgender people deserve to have full human rights, as do women. We must, however, think carefully about situations where women's rights are in conflict with trans rights.

Women and girls have the right to have some spaces which are exclusively female. That means that male-bodied people should not be allowed to enter those spaces. A person born male, and who retains male genitalia has no right to be in those spaces.

This is not anti-trans. Transgender people have the right to use spaces which are appropriate for those who share their anatomy. If they are unhappy with this, they also have the right to campaign for another space.

Wasn't it great when all the sexist fuckers behind this movement left Mumsnet alone, thinking we were a bunch of empty headed bovine types chattering about prams? I miss those days.

This!

I'm really becoming more and more entrenched in the idea that it is better to identify and support small grassroots campaigning groups and charities than it is to go anywhere near anything in the corporate sector.

Yes I think you're right.