Gender vs Sex. Is it too late to reclaim the correct meanings?

[Macareaux]

The two are used so interchangeably in common parlance. But is it worth correcting people and organisations or is the conflation too deeply ingrained?

I was prompted to think about this by a tweet from 50:50 Parliament (but then remembered that they count men in dresses towards their 50% goal.)

Oh its not me
it is the brilliant women at Womans Place

womansplaceuk.org/

womansplaceuk.org/sex-is-a-protected-characteristic/

It can’t be too late - the difference between the two is the absolute crux of how we can legally enshrine women’s rights, and also ensure anti discrimination legislation exists for those living with dysphoria.

We need to demand that proper ‘Impact assessment’ takes place everywhere!

I think we will find that once we've established the difference and got people to use the correct language more than half of the time they already mean what they say. It is gender society really cares about, not sex.

Cool story, bro.

It would help if the group co-opting the language and its meaning could agree on the terms before they try to impose them on the rest of humanity.

It would help if the group co-opting the language and its meaning could agree on the terms before they try to impose them on the rest of humanity.

It has been my observation that it is an exercise in obedience training rather than a negotiation for some transgender advocates.

I think we will find that once we've established the difference and got people to use the correct language more than half of the time they already mean what they say. It is gender society really cares about, not sex.

Do you really? I'm struggling to think of anything where I'd care about someone's 'gender' rather than their sex.. Can you give an example of a situation where people are likely to care more about gender?

When there is a punitive punishment for non compliance, the rules must be obvious and easy to adhere to, or it is abuse.

The pretense is more important to people than the reality?
Time will tell.

I'm quite interested to hear about Sarah carer regarding gender being important. I'm not sure I understand what you mean exactly. Am I right in thinking sex is for instance a Tom cat or a cow and gender well I'm not sure but is that about human behavioural patterns?

No, it's not too late, it's never too late - sex is biologically verifiable. Gender is not - gender is a belief system.

I know I'm not saying anything new, but I think it still bears repeating. Sex is fact and immutable.

I’m trying to think of occasions when ‘gender’ is more relevant than ‘reproductive sex’ but so far I can only come up with marketing strategies for products that relate to gender role stereotypes (such as make up) but not bodily function (such as sanitary products).

Can anyone help expand my thinking on this? I’m truly stuck!

It has been my observation that it is an exercise in obedience training rather than a negotiation for some transgender advocates.

Fuck. This is chilling. This movement never gets less sinister....

One thing mystified me. This is a thread about how the meaning of sex and gender is often muddled up. Yet there is an assumption that sex in the Equality Act 2010 is uniquely correct. Why shall much faith that Act got it right?

Actually I think sex in EA 2010 really means gender - which is why Councils are correct.

I think it is a mistake for you to advocate law breaking on a public forum, Snappity.

The EqA2010 says that sex is a protected characteristic. Unequivocally.

womansplaceuk.org/sex-is-a-protected-characteristic/
"Sex is a protected characteristic
The Equality Act (2010) identifies 9 protected characteristics.

They are

age
disability
gender reassignment
marriage & civil partnership
pregnancy & maternity
religion or belief
race
sex
sexual orientation
These protected characteristics exist to ensure that everyone is treated equally and fairly and to guard against discrimination."

Same-sex provision - excluding people with a GRC - is legal.

Re: EA2010 - How can you get it mixed up when there is a completely seperate category with the word ‘gender’ actually in it, Snappity?

Fairplay for Women:
"The Equality Act’s single-sex exemptions are the best kept secret that transactivists don’t want women to know about. We’ve been conned that transgender people have to be centred else its discrimination.

Equality Law recognises the reality that in some instances biological sex will matter. This means people can be excluded not only on the grounds of sex (male) but also on the grounds of gender reassignment. So even if a trans person has a GRC and has legally changed their birth certificate to female they can still be excluded from a woman-only space based on the grounds of gender reassignment if this is deemed to be a proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim.

The problem is that most organisations are shamefully ignorant of this law. We need to start educating them.

FPFW has produced a factsheet summarising the single-sex exemptions. Print it off – hand it out to organisations – lets start challenging the status quo. Demand that women are considered in their policies."

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/EA2010_womensrights_-factsheet.pdf

Willful ignorance is the tool of the abuser.

Just wish people observed this legislation, instead of capitulating to bullshitters and groomers.

The EqA2010 says that sex is a protected characteristic. Unequivocally.

Yes, but why do people assume that, uniquely, that sex in EA 2010 means reproductive sex or biological sex when we know that sex and gender everywhere else get muddled? Is it wishful thinking by some?

My personal view is that when EA 2010 was being drafted, some of those involved thought sex = gender and others that sex ≠ gender and that it is a bit of a muddle as to what it now means.

Good to know Snappity!

Yes, and some people are now making merry gleeful hell with that confusion - to the detriment of women and girls.

Legislation must be reinforced to protect women and girls, specifically; the very concept of "woman" and "girl", in other legislation, being flexible, is bollocks and therefore meaningless in law.