Posters jumping before they're pushed

[spontaneousgiventime]

Well MNHQ we have the start of the exodus. Posters leaving due to these new guidelines that throw women under the bus.

A poster has deleted their account today due to the upset and stress of getting a strike for saying something that is 100% true. We know it's true because TRA's posted it on Twitter themselves, yet we post it and it's kick off time at HQ

It's a fucking disgrace HQ WOMEN are your target audience yet you don't give a fucking shiny shit about us. Not a fucking shit and it stinks.

More and more women will leave and you will be left with nothing more than people who present as opposite to their birth sex sitting posting about heels, make-up, clothes and fucking knitting.

Good luck with that one.

AAK I wish I could upvote your post that's a great summation!

Could someone please let me know about the other place. LRDthefeministdragon and Catgirl1976 know me (under a previous name mostly.) (Interestingly I started name hopping after the MRA / TRA activity. Seemed necessary. What with that and the site security issues.)

What AAK said - shame on you MN

Wow, this is a mess. Not sure about the Marmite side of the discussion (not sure what the attraction is) but please to posters, keep posting. I was a lurker once, now fully fighting against appropriation of my identity as a woman. Some of the stuff the transloyals post here is sickening and I am amazed it is allowed to stand. The bias is clear. @MNHQ, you and your mods have lost the way.

I think MN have been Stonewalled well and truly and they are the ones protesting at impact assessments on women and children before any alterations to single-sex policies. Guess MN missed that step as well.

Well MNHQ we have the start of the exodus. Posters leaving due to these new guidelines that throw women under the bus

Coming in late, and back to the OP - I am so sad and angry to read this. Various people on this site helped me more than they will ever know in a difficult spot last year when I had an attempt to get me sacked by TRAs for 'transphobia.' I'm not transphobic & that was in the end, accepted, but it was very scary (one of my colleagues asked me if I had cancer at the time, such was the effect on me - I wasn't allowed to talk to anyone at work about it).

Can't say too much about it & I NC frequently, but this place and its support was immensely supportive.

I couldn’t sleep at all last night, and one thing struck me: the women here ARE carrying out the impact assessment that the proper agencies are apparently failing to do.

Obviously without the resources to make the output able to stand alone, but with the hands-on experience of working in services for vulnerable users, and with situations of abuse, to clearly point out the huge potential pitfalls inherent in self-ID.

For me, this is possibly the worst potential impact of silencing this board. I can only hope that it has kindled enough interest elsewhere in the public domain that the government’s consultation will be challenged and held to account.

I want to post in AIBU: help me to learn how to be relaxed about seeing a bearded chap follow my young daughter into a secluded “private” area and having no rights at all to challenge him or even teach her how to respond. Because the “it is all fine” brigade claim to be absolutely fine about it, and I would love to know how.

Do it. Post that in AIBU. You will of course get shouted at by the usual "you're all mean nasty bigots how dare you" brigade, but it's a valid question for a group of mothers to discuss.

It is a valid question. If it's coming, how do we manage it? All the mums who are fine with it, what would you do?

I fear it would be seen as goady, but I am genuinely curious.

Those who are actually campaigning obviously have skin in the game and know what they want to achieve.

But for those who see any concerns as bigotry, how has something which throughout my life time of 40+ years would have put an observer on high alert, suddenly become A-OK?

I’ve never quite dared to join in any gender critical debate on here but might if it was in a more closed forum. How do I find it? Is it invite only?

People may just lie. I can't imagine many women actually being OK with that in reality and doing nothing, but the current climate is such that they may feel compelled not to say so on social media. A lot of women also still seem to think that trans woman = has had penis inverted and balls removed, is on estrogen and is at least attempting to look as close to female as they can given human sexual dimorphism. Most women have no clue that the Danielle Muscato's and Alex whatever's of this world are out there claiming that they and their beards as well as their balls are 100% woman and entitled to access sex segregated spaces for women.

I had a similar-ish discussion with friends after seeing a news article about Guides new badges, one of which is about period poverty, which is an important issue for women. But in the article it mentioned something like 'it's not just women who menstruate'
I get the implication that it's demonstrating inclusivity and trans awareness but, a man following my young daughter into a ladies toilet is much more likely to be actually a man up to no good than a trans person. I have spoken with DD'sGuide Leaders about this and they've agreed to look at the badge details when it comes out. I also pointed out that many of the girls in Guides are Yr5 & 6 and have not yet had the 'sex ed' talk at school and are actually quite naive about puberty, let alone anything else. Parents and schools should be having these conversations with kids first.

I would love to know how many parents would be happy to see a male person follow their 12 year old daughter into the toilets.

I was discussing it with someone following a comment on here, and I'm non the wiser.

You've made me think though. I often took my three children out to eat, just me without DH or mates. Gradually the older ones would start going to the toilet alone. What do you do if a man wearing lipstick follows your seven year old daughter in? You've got two other kids aged five and two, you have no idea what the loo layout is. What are you going to do?

(Sorry, I think I’ve derailed the thread )

Am in meetings all day, but may post on AIBU later. This is what it all boils down to, isn't it? I trained as a barrister many moons ago, but while I find the exploration of interplay between EA and GRA fascinating, I still struggle to follow v often. But essentially this is about changing social conditioning and conventions, and it’s happening already. And either most people haven’t realised the implications, or they’re completely happy that the days of sex segregation are over. Speaking (carefully) with friends and colleagues, I think it’s very much more the latter.

And thank you, again, to the amazing women on this board

So, to sum up, currently the trends in terms of what's coming to dominate the feminist forum on this site are as follows - angry blokes turning up to demand that feminist provide an explanation for why their dates aren't going as they'd prefer, Wakame posting gruesome details about genital surgery that nobody had asked for, and lots of long term users asking for links to a different forum so they can actually have a conversation without having the threat of being deleted for being too honest hanging over their heads.

New policy is working out great, eh? Honestly, that's a downright embarrassing state for a feminist forum on a parenting site aimed at women to be in. If HQ thinks this makes them look good they could not be more wrong.

Jeebus. That's so depressing and so accurate.

@Pacers, but that's such a good and sensible question to ask and discuss.

I was talking to DP about it. Interestingly he's from Paulsgrove in Portsmouth originally - scene of the infamous paedophile riots - and he says he has absolutely no idea how self-ID would play out with the community if girls are required to share eg toilets with adults who are perceived by the girls and their parents to still be biologically XY.

Paulsgrove is in Penny Mordaunt's constituency. I rather imagine she knows that, rightly or wrongly, something that might be seen as not a problem in some constituencies might not go down quite so well in hers.

*Excuse name change

Stonewall... are the ones protesting at impact assessments on women and children before any alterations to single-sex policies

@MNHQ - please, please, please, take note. We are here, being brigaded for defending the rights of vulnerable women and girls to have impact assessments carried out before their much needed single sex services are taken away. You have created an environment where the brigaders are supported and protected. What are you thinking? What will you say when the inevitable scandal resulting from the liquidation of safeguarding procedures happens? Will you be like all the politicians? Wringing your hands and crying how could we have known?

I actually noticed a mother doing the anxious hover outside the door of a public loo after a trans person went in a while back. Couldn't figure out what was going on at first since she didn't seem to be going in herself and I live in a very right on area where most people would rather gnaw off their own leg than admit publicly that they don't think trans women are women, but she was radiating discomfort at such high volume that I kind of stopped to see if everything was OK and she might need help (maybe another woman to go in with her so she felt safer was my first thought), and then the daughter emerged and suddenly all was clear. It's a shit situation if you live in a place where actually admitting that you're concerned is likely to result in you being the one told off.

People may just lie. I can't imagine many women actually being OK with that in reality and doing nothing, but the current climate is such that they may feel compelled not to say so on social media.

But that's ok - even if they won't say, it will make them think and perhaps they might screw up their courage and say next time.

Plus, I wonder how the AIBU crowd would react to being as aggressively policed as we are here.

Anyone think we need a face to face meeting with Justine?

At MNHQ? Just a few representatives from on here and Justine in a meeting.

I'd happily contribute to travel expenses for those who would attend.

Also tells you something about the current state of affairs that I'm wondering if my comment above will be reported and deleted even though it breaks no guidelines at all.

NC here - please please can I know where I can go to discuss these things. I have a 13yo daughter who is gender confused and I really need to be able to discuss my fears and issues without fear of getting a strike or deletion.

I have seen such advances in safeguarding in my lifetime. I never thought that whole framework would suddenly, and with such acquiescence, be replaced with what is essentially a version of a prayer:

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept those I cannot challenge
Courage to challenge those I can
And wisdom to know the difference