Ministers commit to preserving sex-based exemptions

[EmpressOfSpartacus]

Open access link: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ministers-put-curbs-on-trans-rights-7zx2cbh2j?shareToken=71ea2e364a4682a6395af2056695238d

Loopytiles
Wanting to retain single sex services and spaces is not “anti trans”.
Wanting to introduce new restrictions which will only affect trans people clearly is anti-trans.

Good policy considers people’s interests, which often don’t align, and evidence... -
... any decent policy analysis should find that the best policy is, for certain single sex services, to exclude transpeople.
Hmmm... so you agree that good policy-making is based on evidence — except where the evidence doesn't point to the answer you want! The 2015 Select Committee examined the evidence — including the "evidence" put forward by the powerful anti-trans lobby groups , and came up with its recommendations.

You want to introduce changes that will affect only women. How is that not anti-women?

Our space is not a fucking game.

It's not a novelty.

It's not an 'experience'.

It's a RIGHT. A hard fought RIGHT and necessity.

Kettlepotblackagain
No other group makes demands for have something that wasn't rightfully theres in the first place.
So why are you doing it — you are the ones that are campaigning to get transwomen excluded from spaces that they are perfectly entitled to use at the moment!

But it's also because your need for your identity to be validated trumps everyone else else's concerns. Absolute rubbish. When I use a public loo it's because I need to go to the loo. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with "validating" anything.
When I use a changing room, the only thing I am "validating" is whether the clothes I am thinking of buying actually fit!

I don't believe the current GRC process is too costly or difficult.

You only need documents from the past two years. The guidance for completing the application form says 'Typically five or six different documents should be included'

According to GIRES:

civil servants work directly with the applicants and do an excellent job in assisting applicants to put their information together in the most favourable way.

and

The GRP is definitely minded to grant applications, wherever legally possible, which is why directions are given rather than making final decisions which might not be in favour of the applicant. So despite the high rate of requests for further information very few applications actually fail outright. In most cases the issues are around information not being submitted correctly, the most common one of late being the stat dec form not being filled out correctly and/or not witnessed and signed in the prescence of someone qualified to do so.

The solicitor fee for witnessing a statutory declaration is generally £5.

To get a copy of a lost decree absolute costs £10 if you still know the details, up to £65 if a search of courts and case numbers is required. For anyone who gets a divorce it's a really good idea to keep your decree absolute. It's an important document.

It's worth reading the government guidance (including the application forms and the full guidance documents)to understand exactly what the current process is.

was quite good speaking on the EA exceptions and how they could be strengthened.

Are you able to answer my questions Damn?

Do you think it is anti-trans to retain single sex services and spaces?
Do you have any problem with the single sex exemptions in the EqA?

Pratchet
You want to introduce changes that will affect only women. How is that not anti-women?
Nope. Not suggesting any changes that will have any effect on non-trans women.

Kettlepotblackagain
Our space is not a fucking game.
It's not a novelty.
It's not an 'experience'.
It's a RIGHT. A hard fought RIGHT and necessity.

Same here.
Our space is not a game.
It's not a novelty.
It's not an 'experience'.
It's a RIGHT. A hard fought RIGHT and necessity.
So please stop trying to take it away from us.

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with "validating" anything.

Au contraire.

Please see this thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3275325-Can-we-be-honest-about-the-need-for-affirmation

"It doesn't matter which side of the fence people who present as opposite to their birth sex are on during this. We want sex segregated spaces and not human made sex's but birth sex." - @spontaneousgiventime

That's it, isn't it? It isn't about safety or any of the other pretences. It's about wanting to establish natal sex as a new basis of discrimination

"New"

So why are you doing it — you are the ones that are campaigning to get transwomen excluded from spaces that they are perfectly entitled to use at the moment!

I'm campaigning f to ensure that protections in place for women are upheld. Im campaigning to ensure that predatory males are not able to get even easier access to women. The focus, hard as this might be to believe, is not trans people.(Believe it or not, not EVERYTHING is about trans people) A by product of ensuring safe spaces for women remain, would be to have stricter procedures for those who were born male. Yes, I have no problem admitting that my first priority is women who were born female.

A significant part of me is very uncomfortable by the added layer to this that some trans people rifle through toilet bins for used tampons, that go to smear tests to see if the nurse thinks their surgical vagina is 'real', that chats on Internet forums about how they went in changing rooms and 'passed'.

You might also want to target the 'figureheads' of your campaigns. The ones that present hyper-sexualised images of themselves and think that being a women is all about dresses and hair and make up. Their desperation for validation is palpable.

If there had been one jot of consideration for the needs and fears of women by your 'community' then we must be able to actually have a discussion. But everything is dismissed and trivialised to suit your agenda time and time again so no, no negotiation.

PencilsInSpace
I don't believe the current GRC process is too costly or difficult.
When did you get yours?
I'm guessing that you haven't got one, and that you are going only by what is on the government website?
I have actually done it, and got one. I've been through the process.

You only need documents from the past two years
No, you don't. You need documents from when you transitioned. I thought they only wanted two years, because that's what the website seems to say. But they don't.
The guidance for completing the application form says 'Typically five or six different documents should be included'
Yes. It does, doesn't it. I phoned to check, and read out the list of documents that I had prepared. We eventually settled on a list of about a dozen or so.

^According to GIRES:
civil servants work directly with the applicants and do an excellent job in assisting applicants to put their information together in the most favourable way.^
Yes, they do. They did for me. But the experience of others has been different.
It's worth reading the government guidance (including the application forms and the full guidance documents)to understand exactly what the current process is.
Thank you for mansplaining that to me. But please note that I have a GRC, and (I assume) you do not. And if the prices is so simple, cheap, and effective , why did the Select Committee recommend that it needed to be simplified? Maybe the evidence suggested that the reality didn't quite match up with the theory?

Ha the irony. You're even taking my words.

It's not YOUR space.

I have no interest in 'experiencing' anything trans like some in the trans women see the novelty of being a women.

Campaign for a trans space.

I take it that’s a no then Damn.

You aren’t able to say that you don’t have a problem with the single sex exemptions in the Eq A.

In a major victory, ministers have vowed not to change a law nobody was proposing changing...

How can you post this but then refuse to say that you don’t want it changed?

snappity

That's it, isn't it? It isn't about safety or any of the other pretences. It's about wanting to establish natal sex as a new basis of discrimination

There are lots of ways you can categorise people. You can do so by sex (which is binary) or by gender. Chasing to do so by sex when sexed bodies have everything to do with the context is not always about safety. It can be about privacy and dignity and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

I found your apparent disbelief that people would want some provision to be determined by sexed bodies very difficult to comprehend.

Now, if you were campaigning for there to be no sex segregation and for all provision to be unisex, whilst I would strongly disagree with you, I would find your argument more credible.

Chasing not chasing!

Snappity
Do you respect my right to demand a natal woman to perform my smear test, or to give intimate care to an elderly relative? Women have been called bigots and transphobia for expecting this simple human right of bodily autonomy.
Transactivists have taken a win/lose strategy rather than a win/win. From the start they have chanted 'No debate. You can't really complain at the response.

@spontaneousgiventime "Snappity I refuse to engage with you. You want dead women's wombs implanted into non natal women people. You believe people like CJ who have fathered children are equal to infertile women and you are a GF."

You see, the mistreatment of trans women is idealogical isn't it? If medicine offers ways for infertile women to be given a chance to have children you don't want trans women to have that chance, although it does not adversely affects women in any way.

Snappity you truly disgust me.

How can you post this but then refuse to say that you don’t want it changed?

Oh wait, I know why. Because if you think the exemptions are acceptable (like the government does) then, like them, you would be admitting that transwomen are not in fact women.

Snappity I refuse to engage with you. You want dead women's wombs implanted into non natal women people. You believe people like CJ who have fathered children are equal to infertile women and you are a GF.

My only conclusion Snappity is that you are monumentally thick. Even trolls have better chat than you.