Nope, never happens

[sexnotgender]

Man admits filming women in nightclub toilets www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-44577119

I agree with Randomname234 the link in the OP has nothing to do with self ID. And we all know self ID is what this is about.

I think the obsession about men in toilets makes the GC argument look a bit odd. At the moment in order to get a GRC trans women have to prove to a gender recognition panel they have been living as a woman for two years. Therefore they are obliged by law to present as female in all walks of life... including going to the loo.

So trans women have been effectively using self ID for 14 years already in order to obtain their GRC. And there haven't been any problems.

Therefore the obsession that self ID will cause an influx of predatory males identifying as women to enter female toilets seems like bizarre paranoia. Which is a shame because there are some good GC being raised but in the end it all comes back to the toilets.

If the debate was reframed so women understood the exceptions in the Equality Act needed to be strengthened to protect women I would be all over it. I know that's not as exciting or attention grabbing as sharing a link to a bad man doing something bad in a ladies toilet but the EA actually has some bearing on women and girls.

I do know that the removal of sex as a protected characteristic and the amendment of the GRA to provide for Self ID will mean that men will be able to do boldly in unisex loos what they previously had to sneak to accomplish in sex segregated spaces.

The unworkability and illogicality of it all is frankly breathtaking in its stupidity.

I think this is from AAK:

It never ceases to amaze me how many people argue that making it easy for predators to access their victims won't lead to more predators targeting the spaces in which it's been made easier for them. Not a whole lot of understanding of human nature going on there.

"So trans women have been effectively using self ID for 14 years already in order to obtain their GRC. And there haven't been any problems"

This isn't about the kind of trans woman who is motivated to obtain a GRC. This is about the kinds of men who want to bypass all that and just self-ID

But I think you know that

I realize that the only thing you ever want to talk about on a women's rights platform is trans rights, daimbars, but you are going way over the line now.
There have been problems all my long life and my mothers life before me. You need to stop lying about this.

@TransplantsArePlants it's not a case of 'just Self ID' though - you still get a GRC so you have changed your gender legally. That's a pretty big deal just to use a ladies toilet.

Yes, so you keep saying

I agree with Random

No. Really? Shocker

Are a porn-loving-trans-inclusionary- rad fem who loves a bit of chat about Lipsticks too?

So trans women have been effectively using self ID for 14 years already in order to obtain their GRC. And there haven't been any problems

Of course there have been problems.

Bear in mind that the links above are only where the perpetrator has been identified and arrested, not where someone has got away with causing problems (of any sort) in the toilets, and therefore there is something concrete for the media to report.

Eddie Izzard has talked about how he scared teenaged girls out of the ladies' toilets early on in his experimentation with cross-dressing.

I have been in the toilets when a 6' plus person with large hands and an Adam's apple has come in, and I froze then scuttled out. I didnt' report anything, I didn't flag up "a problem", but I sure as hell wasn't happy with what happened

Look, Daim thinks this is odd and bizarre paranoia ladies, ok? So just stop this and get back to the real issues here. Trans people. Got it? Good.

Wow Daim must have been hard for a minute there when the conversation wasn't about Trans people. Hope you were able to get through it ok.

I thought I'd point out that my comment was inspired by daim's instant leap to the notion that this was a thread about trans issues rather than women being safe from creepy men.

So the thread title doesn't refer to a trans debate trope?

Therefore the obsession that self ID will cause an influx of predatory males identifying as women to enter female toilets seems like bizarre paranoia.

If trans women believe they 'are women', then why are they not concerned about predatory men?

So the thread title doesn't refer to a trans debate trope?

Well, if that's what you want to call a clear threat to the safety of women and girls, then y'know... go for it!

Personally, I thought the thread title referred to a clear threat to the safety of women and girls. Something you're against, right?

Disingenuous.

It is something men tell women all the time. Why would you think it is exclusive to trangenders?

Bizarre behaviour that some think this is about them and not about safeguarding for women and children against predatory men

I must have got confused by the dearth of threads about date rape, DV, workplace sexism etc etc etc entitled "Nope, never happens". And I'm not trans.

If you think it's disingenuous you should probably report it, Gasping.

If MNers start reporting stuff they dismiss as disingenuous the place will melt.

The more I read about this the more I find it terrifying - with a teen DD I now have to tell her to NEVER go into public toilets without a friend.

Police have trouble dealing with something as serious as a grooming gang, apparently from the fear of being labelled racist. - I'm worried that if self ID is introduced, the fear of being labelled transphobic will make them hold back from answering calls to men in womens bathrooms.)

Totally agree with this .... crucial that this is a battle we win. It isn't just about the toilets - but boy, are they important!

It is crucial that women and girls have some safe public spaces left. Absolutely crucial.

And the irony of Oxfam are recommending that female toilets are geographically separated from male ones in refugee camps to prevent males from raping females on toilet trips.

The penis is a male organ and can be used as a rape weapon to put females at risk of pregnancy, STIs, and physical and mental injury. Gender identity has nothing to do with this.

It isn't just about the toilets

But they are symbolic:

• Symbolic of safe sex-segregated space Symbolic of the ability of women to enter the public sphere *
• Symbolic of female visibility in the public sphere: women's needs catered to
• Symbolic of the right of women to maintain female-only space without male intrusion or direction

**It's a little known fact that - alongside campaigning for the female franchise - Victorian women campaigned for women's public lavatories. Without them, women had difficulty spending a lot of time outside the home.

If we want to maintain the comparison with hygiene, the contemporary parallel is the campaign around period poverty, or the various campaigns and action plans around the world for facilities for women outside the home.

But we could extend the symbolism of female-only lavatories to other kinds of recognition of women's rights to exist, organise, and take part in activities in safe female-only spaces, with no intrusion or direction by men.

I must have got confused by the dearth of threads about date rape, DV, workplace sexism etc etc etc entitled "Nope, never happens".
Ignorance is no excuse. Google is your friend.

Do they expect women to use she wees to urinate in public the way the men do?

Google is your friend.

I love your self-congratulatory little dictums. Go on, quote me a rule of misogyny or two.

Sheriff Tom Hughes deferred sentence for reports and released Anderson on bail

What is going on here? Is Levon Anderson above the law?

Nothing is going on. The Sheriff has deferred sentence pending production of background reports to assist in the determination of an appropriate sentence. There is nothing unusual in that. I am not a criminal lawyer but I think it is common for first offenders and I think is essential if a custodial sentence is being considered.

Disingenuous.

Making a positive case for maximum protection of women and girls is disingenuous? Gosh.