Trans murder rates

[dietofstrangeplaces]

I've seen the claims about trans people being murdered at very high rates. And I've seen the reply that these are actually specific murder rates, of prostitutes in particular Latin American countries.

Can anyone point me at more data about this?

Specific things I wonder about:

Are non-trans prostitutes being murdered as often?

Are these places with particularly high rates of trans people? Are there particularly high rates of trans prostitutes?

Who is committing these murders? Is it punters, pimps, serial killers, vigilantes?

Is there anything in the culture, particularly ideas of masculinity, that would cause particularly high murder rates? We all know prostitutes bear the brunt of society’s guilt and shame about sex.

transrespect.org/en/map/trans-murder-monitoring/

I believe there were 8 trans murders in the U.K. in the last decade.

There is also some very useful info on this thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3080711-UK-transgender-murder-rate
but I’d like to hear more about how the stats stack up in 2018.

(Before this is screen shot and used as me being evil - each and every murder is a horrendous - no matter how the person does or does not identify).

Try Trans Gender Europe. This map isn't completely up to date but, visually, it highlights a few things.

Just looking at that map and it's over a 9 year period.

Indeed @Circle - I agree.

Over 60% were sex workers, according to this infographic.

Wow that's interesting - it really is Brazil and Central America isn't it? Anyone know if there's been any good journalism on this - talking to relevant people in Brazil or Mexico?

So really, in the UK, barely any, (although of course any murder is a terrible thing.)

Transwomen and men in the UK are more likely (statistically) to be murderers than to be murdered. That's how small the number of actual murders is (though obv any murder is a tragedy)

There were more than 61,000 murders in Brazil in 2017 with similar numbers in 2015 and 2016. So while the trans murders in Brazil are despicable they represent less than 0.2% of murders taking place in Brazil.

I think you have to look at the number of murders in relation to the number of trans people as a whole don't you.

If there were 10 million trans people and 10 murders that's not as big a problem as if there were 10 murders out of only 100 trans people.

Does anyone know what the murder rates in those countries is for female sex workers of colour?

10-15 women in Brazil are murdered per day. Per day.

So while the trans murders in Brazil are despicable they represent less than 0.2% of murders taking place in Brazil.

It's probably less important what percentage of total murders it represents than what percentage of the trans population is murdered.

I don't think the murder epidemic of trans people exists here, no. I do not deny that trans people face discrimination- I think they do and I think that life for a 'non-passing' trans person is no doubt pretty miserable. But statistically, I cannot see how they are any more likely than anyone else to be murdered and I think bar one or two, the murders that have taken place were not by intimate partners (which obviously is a risk for women).

So tell us how many trans people there are in Brazil, Rat Then we can all make sense of the stats

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_people_in_Brazil

www.rioonwatch.org/?p=37249

15% ish LGBT people in Brazil.

1 LGBT person murdered per day... and how many women?

I'll let you finish the math, including realising that not all LGBT people are trans!

Sorry, 15% ish in Rio and about 9% across the rest of Brazil!

So tell us how many trans people there are in Brazil, Rat Then we can all make sense of the stats

I was just making the suggestion Curious, nothing more, nothing less. I don't have time right now, I'm doing other, more complicated sums! (It's my job.)

Rat by way of a clue - in order to have a higher murder rate than the rest of the population they must represent less than 0.2% of the population...

I was just making the suggestion Curious, nothing more, nothing less. I don't have time right now, I'm doing other, more complicated sums! (It's my job.) So... you question bombed and ran!! Not nice and lazy to boot!

But, as usual, MNers have done the maths... and made your twice asked question redundant!

We're often told that 1% of the population of the UK is trans.

That would be 600,000 people, and if 1 trans person is murdered per year, that's 1.67 trans people per million per year. (If the 0.3% figure of the population of the UK is trans is preferred, that gives a figure of 5.5 1.67 trans people per million per year.)

The most recent ONS figures for the UK for the general population are:

There were 12 offences of homicide per million population in the year ending March 2017 (10 homicides per million population excluding Hillsborough victims).

Excluding Hillsborough victims, the homicide rate for males (15 per million population) was more than twice that for females (6 per million population).

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017

(If the 0.3% figure of the population of the UK is trans is preferred, that gives a figure of 5.5 1.67 trans people per million per year.)

In other words trans folk are murdered at a lower rate than both men and women in the uk.

Which is good news if you are trans

It’s statistically safer to be a transwoman than a woman, when you work out the percentage change of each being killed a year. So even with the small percentage of the population (and going off the genuine stats not the stonewall hey everyone is trans! Stats) it’s safer to be a transwoman than a woman.

Obviously, every death is a tragedy. A transwoman killed for being a transwoman should be prosecuted as a hate crime. A woman killed for being a woman should be prosecuted as a hate crime as well.

As for Latin America - huge culture of machismo, massive femicide rate. Look up the killings of young women in ciudad Juarez if you’ve got the stomach for it. Large sex worker population and high violence levels. Inefficient law enforcement. Together it’s a toxic mix - for everyone frankly but I’d imagine especially so for anyone living on the fringes.

So... you question bombed and ran!! Not nice and lazy to boot!

But, as usual, MNers have done the maths... and made your twice asked question redundant!

Why are you being so aggressive? I didn't "question bomb", I dropped in to suggest how you could make your statistical comparison meaningful. It's what I do for a living. I didn't have time to do the maths for you and I didn't have any preconception as to what the result would be, but I had time to say what would make your stats relevant.

And as for "MNers" doing the maths, I don't know who you think I am if not an MNer, of quite longstanding, as you could find out yourself if you were interested. And if you have a little look on this thread you'll see I at no point asked a question.

Total wrong end of the stick you got a hold of there. I don't expect an apology.