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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Can we discuss

53 replies

spontaneousgiventime · 19/06/2018 12:52

Reporting posts?

A couple of nights ago R0wantrees was subject to a heinous, vile post made by an [acronym]. Many of us rightly reported the post but didn't want it to be deleted as we felt it should be seen in all it's vileness.

Perhaps we should decide amongst ourselves if we want to report a post, knowing it will be deleted if found to be in breach of TG.

I'm not in any way criticising MN here and God knows I've done plenty of that in the last couple of days. If we report and it is deemed in breach of TG it is deleted. That has always been the way it is and I have no problem with it.

This is about posts we don't want deleted because we want lurkers to see just how some [term deleted by MNHQ] think.

Agree, disagree, opinions?

OP posts:
Norther · 19/06/2018 12:55

I agree.

loveyouradvice · 19/06/2018 12:59

I totally agree... and thought Datun's analysis was masterful....

each time I see a GF on here, I'm going to shift my thinking a la Datun and see it as a beautiful golden gift on a plate....

they are doing our work for us - let them keep on doing so!

Original poster
spontaneousgiventime · 19/06/2018 13:00

I'm going to tag @R0wantrees in this because she is the person who inspired me to make this thread and should have an input if she feels she wants too.

OP posts:
RaininSummer · 19/06/2018 13:00

Yes. I think posts should stand as a record unless the 'victim' of the post disagrees.

Mogleflop · 19/06/2018 13:04

I agree, however I don't know if this is very workable because there are lurkers who will report too.

Also, apparently some people sign up and write deliberately transphobic things (as in active cruelty versus "I'm concerned about social contagion kids getting surgery, AGP, self-ID, sports etc"). I haven't seen them myself but I've heard of them, and I wouldn't want those left up in the balance of "fairness" for an audience to see "how transphobic Mumsnet is" IYSWIM?

It might be easier to ask @MNHQ to consider reinstating comments or writing why they weren't appropriate rather than just a generic "talk guidelines" post? Or to say "for anyone now reading, the comment that was deleted above said [gist]"?

Opheliah · 19/06/2018 13:07

R0wan I reported the reply too because I wanted the person to reach the 3 strikes and get banned.

If they (TAs) are going to play the game of targeted reporting on this board they should at least be prepared to receive reports and risk (one of them) being banned too.

I don't agree with leaving posts up unless it can be agreed that the post will remain while contributing to a strike.

Opheliah · 19/06/2018 13:09

HQ could delete the post then repeat it quoted in their own red message with a reason why it was deleted.
But I doubt they or anyone would want this workload.

Whattheactualfuckmate · 19/06/2018 13:10

I agree actually.

It’s a fair point about the three strikes and out but a quick email change gets round that so they are straight back on any way

UpstartCrow · 19/06/2018 13:12

Maybe it would help if there was an option to flag a post as well as report?

LaSqrrl · 19/06/2018 13:19

Gosh, don't play the 'report, ban' game! It backfires. Yes, I would like to see all those shitty comments stand, so the world knows who they are. And by the same token, the world can judge our comments as 'not actually transphobic'. As it stands in swiss cheese world, no one knows what the hell was ever said.

R0wantrees · 19/06/2018 13:32

I do really think this matters.

It isn't neccesarily obvious the context, which matters.

I directly asked the now banned poster to respond to a post in which I disclosed my personal circumstances.

This followed their comments on a full post:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3277047-I-am-S-p-a-r-t-a-c-u-s?

I chose to do this because I am aware of how I and other women feel when our experience of hysterectomies are appropriated by some TRAs.

There have been other threads when the distress that women feel about this has been discussed. I think it likely tat many other women will feel similarly but not feel emotionally robust enough or inclined to comment.

I asked the poster to consider this and they did.

I believe that their response may be truthful of their beliefs.

However distressing this belief may be, I feel it important to challenge.

I really appreciate the support and empathy shown towards me and also the other women who commented subsequently.

I have had some time to come to terms with our situation.

When I made the statement and subsequent response it was with other women's similar position in mind. I don't claim to speak for them but I do know that many of us who have hysterectomies and /or infertility issues, feel similarly.

to be clear, I had reported this poster previously (see thread above) as I thought they were being goady and targetting specific members. I did not report the deleted post and am not distressed by it. I do feel strongly that it matters that it is reinstated with whatever comment / trigger warning MN feel appropriate to support other women in similar circumstances

Original poster
spontaneousgiventime · 19/06/2018 13:37

So, many of us agree that we should police ourselves when it comes to posts that attack us as women? How do we do this? Add a message on the thread asking other posters not to report?

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 19/06/2018 13:41

I really believe that a lot of the reports were made about the poster, not to have that specific post deleted.

Of course I don't know this.
I do understand very well why many will have found the post distressing.

Their posts on the other thread still stand (as I believe they should)

R0wantrees · 19/06/2018 13:54

I don't actually have a copy of the deleted comment (though remember most of it)

If someone does as a result of reporting (I think it may be quoted on email responses), could they please PM me a copy please?

I'd like to be able to have another look at it.

R0wantrees · 19/06/2018 14:09

I now have a copy of the deleted post.

There is nothing in it that has not been said by other posters on other threads.

The poster says they feel emapthy for my position. I think they may feel sympathy (which is different). I believe their statement is true to how they view things.

I and many others who post and read understand the difference between sympathy and empathy.

THis is an important point.

My reponse remains the same,
"With respect, our experiences are not the same. Please do not claim they are."

My response and request makes no sense with the message remaining deleted.

Original poster
spontaneousgiventime · 19/06/2018 14:15

I don't know what we can do about it Rowan. If HQ are not prepared to reinstate that's it. If you re-post it then you will be in the wrong.

OP posts:
BettyDuMonde · 19/06/2018 14:15

That’s horrible R0wantrees. What a vile person.

With the potential for BRCA2 related preventative hysterectomy/oopherectomy and double mastectomy in my near future, I am now wondering what I would say to someone who tried to co opt me as a transman to make a point...

‘Cock off’ I reckon.

R0wantrees · 19/06/2018 14:28

I've asked MN to reconsider.

I'm happy to wait for a response and then will find out what my options are from them.

I do really appreciate that this is a difficult situation.

I am not seeking to set a prescedent.

The context matters though.

Original poster
spontaneousgiventime · 19/06/2018 15:12

Keep us up to date Rowan. This is an important issue.

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 19/06/2018 15:23

I will of course. Thank you for understanding and supporting this.

R0wantrees · 19/06/2018 17:02

THis is a link to the thread.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3281582-3-strikes-and-youre-out

I am requesting that @MNHQ reinstate the direct reply to me at
Mon 18-Jun-18 14:40:51

I don't believe it is appropriate to delete this message. THere are a number of previous posts when some trans women have claimed equivelence with female experiences such as hysterctomies and infertility.

This is not an uncommon appropriation.

I appreciate MN wanting to support women who feel distressed by this. We need to be able to identify when and why this is distressing in order to call for this appropriation to stop.

I really do think this matters, and would be grateful for an update.

Original poster
spontaneousgiventime · 19/06/2018 18:01

Well, it's a no. Rowan is not allowed to request the reinstatement of the post. So that begs the question. If we see a post we don't want removed as it shines a light on the way some people think, what do we do?

OP posts:
Mogleflop · 19/06/2018 18:04

Screenshot it and start a Twitter account where they're shared to?

Theinconstantgardener · 19/06/2018 18:04

What about screen shotting it as soon as it appears?

R0wantrees · 19/06/2018 18:12

Have made a number of polite and respectful requests to Mumsnet via return of email (which I received just before midday) to @HebeMumsnet and also using the 'report' facility.

I have had no acknowledgement of these from @MNHQ

I would rather discuss this privately with them, not on the threads.

I do not wish to be goady or harrass MN mods.

I have no inclination to set up or be part of a 'shaming' twitter regime.

I have seen how damaging this was in other circumstances.