Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Can we discuss

53 replies

spontaneousgiventime · 19/06/2018 12:52

Reporting posts?

A couple of nights ago R0wantrees was subject to a heinous, vile post made by an [acronym]. Many of us rightly reported the post but didn't want it to be deleted as we felt it should be seen in all it's vileness.

Perhaps we should decide amongst ourselves if we want to report a post, knowing it will be deleted if found to be in breach of TG.

I'm not in any way criticising MN here and God knows I've done plenty of that in the last couple of days. If we report and it is deemed in breach of TG it is deleted. That has always been the way it is and I have no problem with it.

This is about posts we don't want deleted because we want lurkers to see just how some [term deleted by MNHQ] think.

Agree, disagree, opinions?

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 21/06/2018 08:46

Agrona
Thank you for your support and kind words.

The deleted post wasn't shocking to me as it is a belief I have seen expressed before. I have engaged with a couple of other trans women posters who have also seemed keen to align their experience with women who are childless due to infertility or neccesary medical interventions. They also talked about their pain and seemed oblivious to the impact their comments and claims would have on others.

The lack of empathy was and is striking.

I was shocked the first time that I saw this (it was a few months ago and I was also new to the nature of the debate),

I was also upset the first time I heard someone (Rebecca Root on Victoria Derbyshire?) make the argument that some women didn't have uteruses, because they had hysterectomies, and so trans women who also don't have uteruses (because they are born with male reproductive systems) are also similarly women.

My upset was two fold:

  1. it touched a personal raw nerve. LIke some other younger women I have met, having a total hysterectomy did really affect my sense of self. In other situations I would be (and have been) happy to discuss this in terms of body confidence, sexuality and self esteem. It really can help if women share these experiences, if they are able to. There can be overwhelming feelings of isoloation.

It seems at the moment this isn't a safe place, some people are pouring over posts, trying to score cheap points.

The Gyny Cancer charities all share women's stories, they are important voices.

  1. and for me, this is the strongest reaction, perhaps surprising for other people who have been so supportive and understanding:

IT IS REALLY, BLOODY POOR LOGIC & CRITICAL THINKING!

Its frustrating that on this basis alone such statements aren't shown up to be nonsense and de-bunked. Perhaps we won't have to hear them repeated then.

So, I think this is best challenged.

I do understand that this was a difficult call for MN to make.

I have had some good communication wth the Mods, who are incredibly busy dealing with reports. They do understand how I feel.

There was a poster who was, they have determined, trolling. The troll tried to provoke and goad other regular posters and showed a complete disregard for the talk guidelines and the spirit of Mumsnet.

I am going to start a thread about how important Ithink it is that women's experiences of hysterectomies and infertility are not appropriated and why this matters.
(not straight away though)

I know other women feel similarly. @Munchausenslovelyhorse already has some great ideas.

Hopefully in sharing this together we might feel more empowered to express our truth and assert our right to challenge heartless appropriation of uniquely female experiences.

I don't want to give the troll any more power, so its better, as MN have agreed, that a separate discussion is started.

#sex matters
#we need to talk about women and girls

Bowlofbabelfish · 21/06/2018 09:02

Appropriation is a huge issue. At the moment I’m seeing a lot of appropriation of people with intersex conditions and DSDs - basically they are being used as a ‘gotcha!’ Device. The average post is usually:

Some random Bad Science
Science rebutted and explained by one of our actual scientist MN posters
Aha! but what what about people with this condition - and then a link to something which is usually an individual case study or has a picture of someone’s genitalia on.

I am really, really uncomfortable with this as a geneticist. It’s appropriation of a community who do not want be be dragged into this. It’s got a freak show feel to it and as someone who has spent a significant part of her career investigating how human development can go wrong I am well aware that while we talk about such cases in dry terms, each one is a person entitled to dignity.

I’m also seeing a lot of appropriation of infertility/hysterectomy etc and that’s just awful. It’s awful to the individual affected and it’s awful to anyone suffering in general.

I’m also seeing milder but still annoying stuff like oh but if you have hormone treatment you can have PMS, it’s just headaches and mood swings. No. You. Can’t.

It’s wholesale appropriation.

Now what do we DO about it? I’m with ROwantrees on this one in that my stance is let it stand in some circumstances . Some of the comments I’ve seen have been jaw droppingly awful and the rest of the thread has been a reaction to them. Removing the comment makes the rest of the thread make no sense.

It’s a difficult one. I understand why MNHQ have a policy of deletion - if that comment has been in any other thread then I think that would have been appropriate. What concerns me is that deletions on these specific threads does allow what goady/trolly posters say to be hidden after the fact. It’s a get out for them.

invisibleoldwoman · 21/06/2018 09:03

I agree with leaving posts to stand so that readers can see what has been said. The only option being deletion/banning is increasingly inappropriate here. There needs to be a moderation policy and system that is capable of more nuance and flexibility as per many of the suggestions in this thread.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page