Very basic, obvious examples of male privilege please?

[tigersox]

Examples every man will experience. Undeniable and obvious

I'm trying to make male privilege simple to a friend who feels us feminists have gone too far.

Thanks

If a man's professional title is Dr, how many times would you expect him to be addressed as Ms, Miss or Mrs? Would you expect the same frequency for a woman Dr? If a couple are both Dr, what would be the ratio of envelopes addressed to Dr and Mrs vs Mr and Dr?

(Clue: In over 30 years since our PhDs and marriage, it's only ever been me that's been mis-sexed or 'downgraded')

Thanks pombear
It is a stark reminder of how we are not taken seriously. Not really. Hysterical women.

Okay this is the specific argument we are having

Statement: men staring at us makes us feel uncomfortable (referencing the article I posted earlier with his response)

Response: men are biologically wired to look at women, he doesn't even know he's doing it. Not all men are staring because they want to assault women. Women should just ignore it if they don't like it. Lots of women like being stared at - it validates them and is a compliment. Feminism has gone too far when it says men shouldn't stare at women or be hyperaware not to stare in case they feel uncomfortable.

(Paraphrased)

Help me mumsnet

Disclaimer: he's a lovely guy and too scared of us vipers to post his response so I've offered to save him from crucifixion by posting.

“he doesn't even know he's doing it.”

Bullshit

How can you not know where you’re looking? You’re seeing what you’re looking at, there’s physically no way to not know.

He just doesn’t care that he might be making somebody uncomfortable because his wanting to look trumps their comfort.

Not all men are staring because they want to assault women.

Ask him how we are meant to tell which ones do and which ones don't.

Why does his need to stare supersede my need to be safe?
Why does the man's opinion take precedent over the womens?

How about start from the default option of the womens point of view - it is not acceptable to stare at women, instead of the male point of view that they want/have to stare?

You do not have more rights than me, so why should I change rather than you change?

Yes... last responses all where I am coming from.

This is where the focus is though

'Lots of women like being stared at - it validates them and is a compliment. Feminism has gone too far when it says men shouldn't stare at women'

And I think a lot of men justify their desire to stare with this argument.

I've started staring back unsmilingly at men. And let me tell you what i've learned - they do not drop their gaze and it becomes a bit of an aggressive situation. Becomes a battle of wills actually. Very, very weird!

“Lots of women like being stared at - it validates them and is a compliment.”

Except they don’t, some do, lots just don’t complain - which isn’t the same thing at all.

Why should he think that I am in need of "validation"? (I am fine as I am, thank you very much). And why should he think that said validation should take the form of being leched over?

Why would being leched over by at best a perfectly ordinary looking bloke (who has established, by the mere act of visibly leching, that he has a seriously unpleasant personality) be in any way pleasing to me? And at worst by a middle aged sleaze-ball who looks like a bulldog stung by a wasp? Why would I like this?

Would he feel "validated" by Nora Batty saying loudly in his vicinity "phwoarr I'd give him one"? If not, why would he feel I should feel that way about a Les Dawson lookalike doing the same to me?

Oh well... for that case, some men think they are entitled make pathetic excuses for behaviour which he knows may upset women. The patheticness is emphasised by the fact that many other men are perfectly willing and able to avoid such behaviours because they give a shit about other people's feelings whether women or men.

He's actually doing a bit of a DARVO isn't he? Feminism has gone too far because it's making him feel bad.

I haven't heard of the term DARVO? What's that an acronym for?

To clarify... he's checked with other women and they've told him they like it it makes them feel good to get a look 👀

Halfwit - I was laughing so much not long ago as my aunt told me she was cycling and had been called a bitch by a man in a car.

Her reply was just one long... 'fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccckkkkk ooooffffffffffffffffff'

She said she just shouted it as long as loud as possible.I thought 'yes'! You actually did it, you didn't wish you had done it afterward! Sadly it could have escalated but luckily it didn't.

DARVO - deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. It's an acronym from discussions of the way in which domestic abusers exercise coercive control ("I didn't do what you said I did", "You're always having a go at me", "I'm the one who's really suffering in this relationship because you're always accusing me of being the bad guy.")

Some women do claim to like being leched over by random strangers they themselves are not attracted to. The ones I have come across are, sadly, mostly women who have been shat on from a great height by the men in their lives, starting early on in childhood, and thus have very low self esteem and will seize on any crumb of male attention.

You know what REALLY opened my eyes to men?

Working in a pub between the ages of 18-21.

The most revolting men gemuinely they are Greek Gods compared to you, a woman. They think you are flattered and honoured that they make disgusting remarks and treat you like you are nothing.

They think because they have a dick they are automatically 200% more attractive than you. That they get to size you up and assess whether 'they' would have sex with you. Because of course you would be honoured.

Then their wives come in with them and they act like they've never even met you.

Disclaimer: he's a lovely guy

No he isn't.

Out of interest, are there any other things that he feels he is "biologically wired" to do and therefore has absolutely no control over?

I teach overseas. Lots of us have our dc with us as students at the school.

Dd2 had to do an arty project over half term, which was a major faff & also a tad impractical as her designated partner was travelling that week & on a different continent.

Male colleague also has a child in same class. His child's partner was local & available, but colleague couldn't be arsed. He had marking & reports to do & wasn't about to host a play date of glittery shite volcano building.

We both separately contacted class teacher (male as it happens) to say sorry, can't be done in the time frame & circumstances.

Class teacher sent me badgering email.

He sent similarly badgering email to male colleague's dw, who is a rather important diplomatic bigwig & was out of the country that week. She bounced it straight back to her dh, who cheerfully repeated his original stance: marking, writing reports, simply cba, sorry not sorry.

I got another grumpy email from class teacher. So did colleague's dw.

Anglian Windows (yes you) saying they can only make an appointment for me if my Husband is there.

Would my DH have to wait for me to be there to secure an appointment?

What is this, Gilead? You lost my money, Anglian. MINE!

Excuse DM link but clearly happens to other 'wives' too

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4421020/Mum-blasts-sexist-Anglian-Home-Improvements-salesmen.html

One of the best things about getting older is not constantly feeling the male gaze. You know, that unpleasant, intrusive, invasive leering and ogling that oppresses you from the moment you start to enter puberty as a preteen.

Post Childbirth injury rates.

Imagine if it was men. Third degree tear? Prolapse? Incontinent?

You'll be reet love.

Your aunt is my hero kettlepotblack

I've tried the staring tactic at men and I swear to god, it was the first time they have ever felt objectified. He looked almost... Uncomfortable?

Imagine that.

I stare at people a lot because I lie observing them. Maybe I do it too much but when someone looks back at me I immediately look away. The guys who annoy me stare and stare and even when I look back they continue to stare. It's uncomfortable and intimidating.

My fathers oldest brother had the privilege of been killed in the first world war at the battle of the Somme.