Asking people to use preferred pro-nouns is abelist and discriminatory - what affects your ability to comply?

[DJLippy]

I wanted to start a thread because I am really going to struggle to stay within Mumsnet talk guidelines.

I struggle to use preferred pro-noun's with those who I genuinely don't believe are the sex they claim to be. Because I have dyspraxia pro-noun policing creates a barrier for my fluency. I have to stop and think to change the pro-noun. I can go back and edit my post for 'mistakes' to comply but I miss out on pro-nouns (again because of my disability.)

I have spoken to those with autism and they've told me similar things - that they genuinely find it difficult to lie.

I also think that it is difficult for those for whom English is a second language. Un-learning sub-conscious grammar structures is hard enough for English people - I can only imagine how much more difficult it must be for those from other countries.

I think this is a real issue when Mumsnet creates a three strike rule. I have stopped posting since the new rule change because I honestly and truly do not mean to break rules - I can't abide by this code and I don't always have the mental energy to police my sub-conscious like this.

Does anybody else have a reason (other than the fact that they don't agree) that they find it difficult to follow the new language laws? Is it right that social media platforms and public institutions create more barriers for those who are already disadvantaged?

Don't report, let Mousse's posts stand forever, people need to see this stuff

I agree people really needs to see this

So when people say "I can't do this because of X" it feeds into discrimination.

That's blaming disabled people for their own oppression and putting the onus on them to fight it, aka victim-blaming asshattery.

Nothing I say is going to help here.

I sincerely want people to communicate in ways that make them comfortable. Language just is more difficult if you are not NT.
Feel free to object to the changing use of pronouns.

Many none NT people can, will and are adapting and may be upset to hear others think they can't.

I will politely bow out now and apologise for the offensive caused.

What bd67th said.

You will never get it. You could be the worlds leading expert on the subject of disability, but unless you live it you have no clue. Clearly.

I was questioning whether Mousse really was someone who works with autistic people, but having thought about it, I fully believe they do.
This is just the sort of ignorant tripe we had to put up with when ds1 and 2 were in school. A little bit of autism training = power crazed know it alls who couldn’t tell the arse from the elbow of autism.

Mousse you could learn so much from the people on this thread. There are some incredibly intelligent women here. Instead you choose to patronise us and point out where we’re going wrong.
Thanks but no thanks

Mousse I understand your point.

How do all the posters with autism suggest that this is resolved then ? Misgendering is pretty much accepted as being offensive so there has to be a way forward that finds the balance between the difficulties that you all have and MNHQ's stated policy.

What would work for those of you who have posted of your difficulties ?

The point is Moouse that MNHQ introduced the new pro-noun policy to be more inclusive of trans folk. That's fine in theory but it then acts as a barrier to many other groups - which has the effect of excluding them from the platform should they be unable to comply. Even if you manage to comply it creates a barrier to communication and adds to their mental strain.

How does this inclusive malarkey work then? We are excluding those with
*Autism
*Dyspraxia
*Dyslexia
*Dementia
*ME
*Reading difficluties
*English as a second language
*Those with poor reading and writing skills

What's your advice? Suck it up bigots - stop whining! Nice - way to be a SJW.

Quick point the thread was started in relation to dyspraxia and dyslexia and my initial points related to that. I would have phrased myself different in relation to autism specifically.

The thread mentioned autism Mousse - it was just giving a couple of examples and asking for further advice. Maybe you're the one who needs to work a little bit harder on your reading and comprehension eh!

X makes it more difficult but it can be done

X makes what more difficult? Being dishonest? Are you saying we should be teaching autistic children to say things they don’t actually believe? I know this is a minefield but teaching them how to tell lies is ethically questionable.

You'd think mn would also be considering how many women with
*Autism
*Dyspraxia
*Dyslexia
*Dementia
*ME
*Reading difficluties
*English as a second language
*Those with poor reading and writing skills
...are mothers, vs how many male born [ACRONYMs] are mothers.

As that was why they set it up n'all...

I'm trying to leave but can't quite go.

I've called no one a bigot. I have said time and again the objection to using or not using pronouns is a separate point. My point is about language development, acquisition and use.

I have made NO points in relation to gendered language.

If you read my posts I'm trying to break down fixed ways of thinking about disability and allow people to develop skills.

And if you read the posts from the actual disabled people talking about their reality you might understand more. You are beyond ignorant. Do you think disabled people really look at something once and then decide “nope, I’ve tried once that’s enough!”?

Thank heavens you’re here to tell us all what is possible. Gosh if only you were here when I was moved from clinical tasks at work because my brain failed me (after a horrendous bacterial infection which almost left me completely incompatible with life and my 6 children motherless). If only I try that bit harder I’ll be able to remember the resus als algorithm in an emergency and get put back on the floor!

The op mentioned autism.
Several posters before your post Mousse talked about autism.
I’m really not sure how you missed it.

Yy Spartacus. I wouldn't like it, but a "no misgendering, missing the space out, not referring to people who identify as something as exactly that" would be a hell of a lot easier to try to deal with mentally.

🙌 circle.

Imposing language on people isn’t language development. It’s bullying.

Mousse if you're having problems with your reading I have a number of coping strategies I'd be more than willing to share with you!

The OP was "does anyone have a reason along these lines for these changes to be difficult" not "come along and tell all the people who agree with the OP because of disability issues that they are wrong and just need to try harder"

Subtle difference. 🙄

I look forward to explaining the whole 'misgendering' thing to older (and some religious) relatives from/in the ME (where in their first language there is not he or she and it's very easy to get these muddled in English to start with).

SpartacusAutisticus

I'm autistic not a person with autism.

^^

I’d like to apologise if I offended you in using that term. Both in my social life and at work I have encountered people who like to use one of the two different terms I have used. Again apologies.