Asking people to use preferred pro-nouns is abelist and discriminatory - what affects your ability to comply?

[DJLippy]

I wanted to start a thread because I am really going to struggle to stay within Mumsnet talk guidelines.

I struggle to use preferred pro-noun's with those who I genuinely don't believe are the sex they claim to be. Because I have dyspraxia pro-noun policing creates a barrier for my fluency. I have to stop and think to change the pro-noun. I can go back and edit my post for 'mistakes' to comply but I miss out on pro-nouns (again because of my disability.)

I have spoken to those with autism and they've told me similar things - that they genuinely find it difficult to lie.

I also think that it is difficult for those for whom English is a second language. Un-learning sub-conscious grammar structures is hard enough for English people - I can only imagine how much more difficult it must be for those from other countries.

I think this is a real issue when Mumsnet creates a three strike rule. I have stopped posting since the new rule change because I honestly and truly do not mean to break rules - I can't abide by this code and I don't always have the mental energy to police my sub-conscious like this.

Does anybody else have a reason (other than the fact that they don't agree) that they find it difficult to follow the new language laws? Is it right that social media platforms and public institutions create more barriers for those who are already disadvantaged?

I object because it's lying and morally wrong.
It goes against my deeply held beliefs.

So how would you explain to a person with autism that they are expected to lie in order to spare feelings? Many autistic people would find this highly distressing.

Yep. I didn't have any say about being born autistic and it has affected every aspect of my life. Now I am being expected to lie to protect another person's feelings. OTOH, it is another way that society expects me to adapt to it because I'm broken.

even if they are not perfect they can adapt

Perhaps, but would you ever impose a 'three strikes and you're out' on students with these difficulties?

Yep. The old medical model of disability - we're broken and not as good as other people so we have to jump through hoops so society will accept us.

However, when you start to use learning difficulties as a reason for not using them you might end up backing yourself into a corner.

I find this post inherently disabilist. I have a child (nearly 10) who has a severe language disorder and autism. He is unable to linguistically distinguish between ‘he’ and ‘she’ and might never be able to. Friends, family and school staff are frequently ‘misgendered’. God forbid he encounters anyone with such a lack of understanding when he becomes an adult.

I would hope when you work with autistic young people you wouldn’t be insisting they lie.
You wouldn’t be working with my child if that was the case!
Recognising the two sexes is one of the basic things that humans do. You can’t force people to ignore that, and given that one of those sexes has proven over the years to be more dangerous than the other, it should be a safeguarding issue to override such a basic and fundamental difference when teaching anyone.

Where are the rules making the world lie for my fucking feelings?

Perhaps, but would you ever impose a 'three strikes and you're out' on students with these difficulties?

I don't know about MM but MNHQ is certainly willing to throw those of with autism under the bus, despite claiming its support for minorities. Good to know that feelings are more important than supporting people with disabilities.

And thanks for the extra cognitive load, MNHQ - like I don't have enough to do, trying to act neuro-typical in my daily life.

It astonishes me that we teach lying to appease authority from the earliest age as a good thing and then depending on the circumstances punish people for lying. All part of the dominance dance but don't dare name it that.

Mousse, I am not here to represent the autistic community - I'm here for me, just like you are

It would be so lovely if the non-autistics, with their supposedly superior empathy and communication skills, could adapt to us some of the time.

I always say that I'm not disabled by my condition; I'm disabled by society's attitude toward my condition.

Shut up and adjust. Shut up and adjust more. And more. And more.

Or perhaps, for once, neurotypicals could adapt to us?

@Moussemoose you might want to take a look at what Camille Paglia has to say on this subject, she’s got it bang on.

Sorry, should say on the subject of preferred pronouns, not on ableism.

I'm berating no one.

If you read the title of the thread I think you may come to the realization that you are berating people for talking about the problems they are having instead of "adapting" ass you think they should.
Usually we talk about the problem to seek a solution. Short circuiting the process is ill advised. I would think, as a person who works with children, you would know that.

I am fully supportive of the disabled community and would love to see a more open approach to communication.

My issue is that some posters started off by saying "I can't do this because of X". I spend a lot of time trying to break down barriers. Colleagues try to get young people work placements and are told "no because they can't do X".

This is often not the case and people can be taught, can change and can adapt and can work successfully. So when people say "I can't do this because of X it feeds into discrimination".

X makes it more difficult but it can be done. Now if you don't want to do it because you object on other grounds - go for it, just be careful.

If you read my posts I'm trying to break down fixed ways of thinking about disability and allow people to develop skills.

@Moussemoose: You want clarity in language then don't learn English.

Because we all obviously had a choice about learning english, what with being british and going to british schools. Oh wait, that other thing.

So you work with autistic kids and support them in being more tactful, great.

The autistic women on here are not supported (and some have never been supported thanks to gender stereotyping meaning they were not diagnosed as kids) and giving them the choice of self-exclusion or risking a ban from a service that many of them have used for years without issue, for the sake of some entryist shit-stirrers, is discriminatory.

You may want to try another way Mousse, you're not very successful so far.