Spreading the idea that everyone has a gender identity

[Macareaux]

Mermaids has quite a reach. Influencing consumer groups.

The ease with which schools, workplaces and other organisations are being brainwashed is quite astounding

'Typical feelings and reactions of the other gender'

Thag is so bloody sexist. Us wimmin with our lady brains and lady feelings and lady reactions. My god could this whole thing be any more regressive (!)....

I have a sex like everyone else. Some people have body dysphoria and are convinced, often by social media, that transitioning will take that away. Some like cross-dressing. Some men have sexual fetishes involving women's bodies and dress. None of that changes their sex, despite what some assert.

I've just received an email from HQ letting me know I've been deleted on this thread for a comment I made about transgenderism (as in the movement / ideology). I'm rather unclear as to which actual guideline the comment broke to be frank.

Anyway just letting people know in case it bothers you to be deleted - we can be deleted for what we say about an ideology now.

Ok I'm dead

That's a bit worrying, beachcomber.

Do you remember that researcher, Tuval, Tuvel? Was it Jessica? Anyway she was a very pro-trans activist who wrote a paper explaining why transgender*m and transracialism were NOT the same. She was burned by transactivists largely because she even raised the issue of transracialism in the same breath as transgenderm. BUT one specific complaint was that she used the term transgender*m. Now I thinks it's very unfair to delete for this, when it's such a common term, and used by some trans researchers. There's no difference between this and transracialism. If it's not a medical condition, and it's not a movement, what is it?

Imagine having to work the first Saturday at MNHQ after the new rules. What a rotten shift to bag.

Pratchet I was literally thinking the exact same thing

I'd have a printout of the rules covered in highlighted bits and red pen scribbles constantly to hand and a sense of impending doom...

Bad luck, Saturday mods, hope your weekend improves

Well going on that particular deletion (don't know if it counted as a strike but perhaps not as the email didn't mention anything about that) if I keep posting on the issue in my usual style, I won't last long.

I wonder if I would have been deleted for saying the same thing about an ideology / movement other than transgenderism. I suspect not.

Perhaps I should post the same comment about feminism and see if it gets deleted.

Who benefits from reifying gender?

Misogynists?
Patriarchs?
MRAs?
A certain group of people who cannot be named?

Who is disadvantaged?
Women and girls

Gender is a ridiculously imprecise term. You can project anything on to it unless you precisely define it. If I feel my identity is a rational, humanist, sceptic - is that a gender? Male-rational, sceptical, Female humanist/caring. However there's no evidence of a male female split in these concepts. Anyone who claims a gender identity must be prepared to a)define, give a clearer description of facets of that internal identity
b)evidence that it is a binary characteristic not shared by humans in general.

I've just received an email from HQ letting me know I've been deleted on this thread for a comment I made about transgenderism (as in the movement / ideology). I'm rather unclear as to which actual guideline the comment broke to be frank.

Wait, what?

I call it gender identity theory or gender identity ideology and I tend to refer to adherents as genderists. I intend all these terms to refer to this particular world view. Hardliners of this world view I tend to refer to as extremist transactivists.

MNHQ - are these terms allowed, or not?

Can we be clear?

Gender identity is real and accepted by most mental health professionals. It is accepted by the science of psychology.

Accepted by the science of psychology... like how white people are the most attractive you mean?

It's an aspect of psychology that is faddish and will hopefully head the way of eugenics. It's incredibly alienating to me as an autistic lesbian woman with no gender identity

Gender identity is so unreal, it is impossible to observe or even describe in a meaningful way.

Besides that, isn't it rather transphobic to call it a mental health disorder? Why are mental health professionals describing the disorder? Don't you disapprove of that?

If the answer to 'are you a boy or a girl' is based on your primary and secondary sexual characteristics I can't see how it relates to gender identity.

If it's 'I'm a girl because I like girly things and feel like a girl inside' then yes that is what I understand to be gender identity.

SupermatchGame
'Also unequivocal is the fact that others will agree with the answer given'

What is a disorder?

A condition which is comorbid with suicidal ideation is surely a disorder?

Feminists know that gender is toxic particularly for women but also for men. So what’s the correlation?

TheWrongTrousers

You're saying that famous men who have transitioned are benefitting from fame privilege? Not male privilege?

Rubbish.

No one had ever heard of these famous transactivists until they transitioned and started setting themselves up as experts on the trans ideology and feminism.

Show me the famous females who have transitioned, who were (and are) journalists, lawyers, athletes and broadcasters, who have been advocates for extreme pornography, and claimed they are male homosexuals. If it's by dint of being famous - or trans.

If it's 'I'm a girl because I like girly things and feel like a girl inside' then yes that is what I understand to be gender identity

That's not gender identity. That's social conditioning across a narrow range of stereotypes.

Lang I'm not sure because the email didn't tell me why I was deleted or which guideline I broke but I'm pretty sure I wasn't deleted for using the word "transgenderism". I'm fairly certain it was what I said transgenderism is which got me deleted.

Perhaps HQ interpreted my comment as being about the act of transitioning which I guess could be deleted for being hurtful to MNers who have transitioned or have a family member who has.

But to my mind "transgenderism" is an ideology in the same way that feminism is. And I think we should be able to robustly criticize ideologies. It may annoy or upset people who adhere to the ideology but I don't think that is a valid justification for disallowing negative comments about ideologies as long as the language used is not beyond the pale (slurs, etc).

@Beachcomber excellent point about the age identity. If I am 40 but identify as 20 as I like going out clubbing and going to house parties and enjoy dressing ‘young’ having a ‘young’ hairstyle and ‘young’ makeup, does it mean I can change my legal ID as it’s how I ‘feel’ inside.
Or is it fine to say I can dress how I want, do whatever activities I want, have cosmetic surgery to change my appearance if it makes me happier but the reality is I will still be 40 no matter how I ‘identify’ inside and I shouldn’t expect other people to go along with the pretence that I am actually 20 as that’s how I identify.

Kardashian

Under age discrimination protections you would be able to complain if you were ridiculed for your behaviour. You couldn’t complain if a neutral statement was made about your age though.