Spreading the idea that everyone has a gender identity

[Macareaux]

Mermaids has quite a reach. Influencing consumer groups.

The ease with which schools, workplaces and other organisations are being brainwashed is quite astounding

How do we get a training session? We don't. Try at your place of work. You don't.

Sorry Pratchet?

There is my second strike? Be careful what you say. The central scrutinizer's are patrolling for possible violations to report.

Sorry for not being clear. Someone asked how come we do to get to do women's training sessions to balance the trans sessions. We don't. Try suggesting it.

Are you linked up outside of Mumsnet?

Do you get copies of what’s deleted?

If you get banned please do a subject access request and get evidence

Ooooh what a good idea

And then contact Filia or a Woman’s Place.

Ask for assistance with a potential test case

If you mean me I'm pretty vocal about it everywhere. Do you think I only bore people with it here? I often think of the lurker and the critics here and how we can make sure the gender critical narrative is heard and understood.

Oh you're on a different tack sorry.

Oh god no I don't. Not at all Sarah.

I feel as sexy as a sideboard. My identity is therefore furniture based I guess.

I feel like the unarmed defensive tactics instructor I was thirty years ago, until I try to get up out of this chair.

One can feel like a man or a woman, by accepting stereotypes as part of one's personality. The world has converted the meaning of those words to masculinity and femininity. The biological meanings of the words are being consigned to history.

Sarahcarer

I agree with you about taking it back to basics. Many of us have 20 years or more of feminist thinking underpinning our positions.

The teenagers in the eye of the storm are still baby feminists contending with gaslighting and “choice” feminism

I agree with all that leyat has posted on this thread. Thank you, SarahCarer. I think I see where you are coming from now. Personally, I don't believe that any one can "identify as" anything. A person either is or is not. I don't "identify as" a vegetarian, I am a vegetarian. I don't eat animal flesh. A person cannot be vegetarian and eat animal bodies, however it seems to me a person could "identify as" a vegetarian while eating a bacon wrapped steak. This is appropriating a word and it's associated conotations without DOING the thing. I am DOING woman because of my body's adult and female development.

Yes it's nonsense to think you can choose your identity in some kind of vaccuum. And identity doesn't alter biology. Most identity is formed socially. It is as much about who we are not as it is about who we are. It is how we think of ourselves as distinct from the rest of the world. I identified strongly as a girl because I rejected masculinity. Now I reject femininity too and I find that a great relief. But if who I am is the kind of behaviours you can predict that I will exhibit then there is still a great deal of socialised femininity there whether I like it or not.

I don't think my ideas on this are fully formed, so I apologize ahead of time. For me, identity is comprised of the things that guide a person, like a kind of basic programming. I think most of this is innate but can be over/under emphasized via socialization. But everything else is essentially running a program. Gender is basically a program that we run/reject. But I don't believe that the gender program, if you will, is ever a thing we are. I will refer to pps' examples of gender programming that was once a mark of the male leisure class. I hope this made sense/ was coherent.

SarahCarer

I don't think anyone disputes that people are, or can be, trapped by gender. It's what underpins feminism.

Women calling it a social construct doesn't miss the point. They are merely giving the final conclusion to a whole heap of analysis.

Gender is used and always has been to subjugate women. 'Women are...' - fill in the blank. It's a tool, a transwoman mechanism.

Interestingly when all this first started, transwomen did indeed resort to stereotypes to explain how they felt. But stopped pretty quickly when feminists pointed it out.

You will now never, ever hear an actual explanation or description of what their 'female gender' feels like. Just that they know. No words can be formed around that knowledge though.

Reason? Being a woman isn't a feeling. Therefore it cannot be described as one.

If you read any detransitioning narrative it's pretty obvious that the person has been rejecting society's expectations. Men who reject toxic masculinity and laddish behaviour. Women who reject, and try to escape from, men's objectification of their bodies and behaviour.

The people who remain resolutely unpersuadable generally know full well what you mean, but don't care because they have different skin in the game.

It's a tool, a transwoman mechanism.

I don't know where the word 'transwoman' came from! Sorry. It's just 'mechanism'.

I certainly don't think the trans ideology invented gender. Trans people are as much a victim as women. But until they see it that way, they perpetuate it.

I know I’ve related this anecdote before, so apols. The GRC process as is/ was, relies on gender identity (as in adherence to a set of gender stereotypes) in the form of RLT to approve or deny legal sex status. Gender was translated into law at that point, and any trans person wishing to acquire legal status had to prove adherence to gender stereotypes in order to get legal sex status. I had male born trans people explaining to me that they had to give up hobbies they enjoyed because they were stereotypically masculine hobbies, and continuing to indulge in them would endanger their desire to be legally recognized as a woman.
As someone who rejects any notion of gender stereotypes, this is abhorrent. The law dictates that trans people abide by gender stereotypes in a trade off for status.
(The idea that such status is up for grabs at all is entirely another subject - and one which these days I would fall in the side of ‘abolish the fuck out of that’ - but I do recognize that those people whose body dysphoria was alleviated by transition were/ are obliged to perform stereotypes.
The law is an ass.

It’s at least understandable that trans dogma relies on innate gender identity as a construct when they have been required to claim it by the govt. chicken/ egg.

Gender identity is utter rot for most people I have spoke to about it. I have yet to come across anyone who has an 'innate' feeling of being a man or a woman, and oddly enough, this goes for transsexual people I know too, who also do not have this sense of woman-ness/man-ness either. It seems to be something that only 'transgender' people have. Which is curious. Even more curious, is that a-gender comes under 'transgender' anyway. So all of these people who do not have a 'gender identity' now join the 'transgender' crew in being trans, and voila, 100% of people are trans. Best get onto GIRES and co to let them know this huge development.

Blackdog, I'm no supporter of gender stereotypes but it seems to me that, if gaining a GRC doesn't refer to the Individual performing stereotypes in some way, how is it possible to establish someone's bona fides?

Because it's not possible for someone to "feel like a woman" if they are male, you can only "present" as a woman. If you don't the whole identity thing falls apart.

blackdoggotmytongueagain

I had male born trans people explaining to me that they had to give up hobbies they enjoyed because they were stereotypically masculine hobbies,

I genuinely don't understand this. How would anyone know what hobby someone had?