Munroe Bergdorfs response

[Kettlepotblackagain]

They support ALL women don’t forget.

There is more. mobile.twitter.com/MunroeBergdorf?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

And the response is overwhelmingly critical. The BFI have seriously cocked up here

Lisa says hi everyone, and waves back at you.

Hi back! I completely missed last night that the blog had already been linked and commented on, but hey, a good link never goes amiss a second time.

Munroe Bergdorf strikes me as someone who doesn't think through the consequences of their actions.

Time and time again Monroe has had to 'issue a statement' or 'pull out of events'. It's beyond a joke now.

Monroe doesn't represent my type of feminism. No way!

Hi Lisa! Waves back.

Because this could be resolved so easily by recognising BOTH sex and gender. But they dont want that.

At risk of derailing thread somewhat (perhaps should be separate discussion) but to be honest, I’m not sure I want that. I don’t think anyone should be discriminated against or disadvantaged because of their gender identity/presentation etc - but does that need to be recognised? How would it/is it recognised? What actual relevance does it have to anything where officially recognising it has an impact?

Sex is relavent - when it comes to biological functions, healthcare, and protected single-sex spaces.

In what similar circumstances is gender (identity) actually relavent (genuine curious question, non-goady tone)?

Good question, Cwenthryth.

I think ‘gender presentation’ could be protected but not ‘gender identity’.

This would give those living in the gender that doesn’t traditionally correspond to their sex legal protections against discrimination but not entitle access to single sex provisions to their non-birth sex.

Essentially, it would return us to the ‘gentlewomans’ agreement that has existed for decades (‘we’ll pretend to make you happy, just don’t take the piss, basically’).

The same provision could also protect the rights of those who declare themselves as living without gender, I reckon.

Cwenthryth

I read this comment recently by Christine Burns.

Christine was involved in the 2004 GRA a, so I am sure she is very well informed.

Quoted here in article describing the background to the formation and purposes of 'Press for Change':

(Extract)
"In the 90s, when she was chair of the Women's Supper Club of the local Conservative party association in Cheshire, she quietly joined Press for Change. Even then, the new activists dared not be openly trans. "The thing that held us back in the 1990s campaigning was that fear of being out," admits Burns. Eventually, she came out in 1995; she jokes that she realised she was more embarrassed to be a member of the Conservative party than openly transsexual.

Much of their campaigning remained on the quiet. The passage of the 2004 law to give trans people legal status was "remarkable," says Burns, because "the government was able to pass an entire act in parliament without anyone throwing a fit in the press".... continues

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

They're only ever interested in themselves and their kind.

Thanks for that R0wan I’ll do some reading and maybe start a different thread on this question later.

Back to the topic of this thread though...... still nothing from either BFI or Bergdorf on why the no-show? Radio silence as far as I can tell?

I dislike a lot of things MB says and does, and think MB’s actions do a lot of damage both to women and MB’s own cause, but I hope MB is physically well and nothing serious has happened.

(As an aside, avoiding both ‘misgendering’ and telling lies does lead to unnatural sounding sentences).

GardenGeek - is the word transfeminine an accepted one? I’d be happier with that than trans woman, as it reflects more accurately what they are trying to recreate, which is femininity not womanhood.

As many of us are unhappy with the TWAW rhetoric, and they don’t like TIM etc I wonder if transfeminine and transmasculine might catch on as a way to validate the feminine identity of someone presenting in a stereotypically feminine way, which is not how many women choose to present themselves.

GardenGeek - is the word transfeminine an accepted one? I’d be happier with that than trans woman, as it reflects more accurately what they are trying to recreate, which is femininity not womanhood.

I agree and asked if we could use the word feminine when the new guidelines came out.

I was told by another poster that this would work as some trans who want to be women do not see themselves as feminine and vice versa.

It's twightlight zone territory.

Would NOT work, not would work

‘Transfemin/masculine’ also legitimises the presupposition that a man cannot be feminine/woman cannot be masculine in the first place.

How about "Faux female"?

If we’re going to use existing labelling guidance:

Female style
Female flavour

Ie when your product doesn’t have the required % of the names ingredient, allowing such monstrosities as chicken flavour noodles that are vegetarian safe

Munroe Bergdorf was chosen because she was once a man. She has that privilege and status

Nothing more nothing less.

No she was chosen because she is an attractive trans woman and currently a fashionable media topic.

Her twitter looks as though it has been quiet now for 2 days I wonder what has happened.

I hope Bergdorf is OK.

Seems to me that the BFI put Bergdorf’s wellbeing at unnecessary risk in their quest for media attention/woke cookies.

Another instance where no one ‘wins’ and more hurt occurs.

I hope Bergdorf is OK. Seems to me that the BFI put Bergdorf’s wellbeing at unnecessary risk in their quest for media attention/woke cookies.

BFI do have some responsibility in this, but Munroe could have declined the invitation. I don't see Munroe's supporters expressing any concern for the women displaced by Munroe's appointment; what about their wellbeing?

Munroe's "wellbeing" should not be compromised by being told the truth - a fact which Munroe should be particularly aware of given Munroe's vocal activism on cultural appropriation and racism.

However it seems that Munroe's concerns about appropriation do not extend to the sphere of taking women's spaces and claiming their lived experience.

Oh please. 🙄 Bergdorf doesn’t give a shit about women and is happy to dish out abuse, so I’m sure bergdorf will be absolutely fine. Do you think Bergdorf was feeling guilty about the woman that Bergdorf told to get her head out of her arse? 😒

Oh please. 🙄 Bergdorf doesn’t give a shit about women and is happy to dish out abuse, so I’m sure bergdorf will be absolutely fine. Do you think Bergdorf was feeling guilty about the woman that Bergdorf told to get her head out of her arse? 😒

I'm afraid I agree. I have no sympathy either.

I'm concerted this silence is quite a manipulative tactic.