I am S p a r t a c u s

[PermissionToSpeakSir]

I am a woman.

I was a girl.

I am an adult human female.

Something a man can never be.

I am a woman.

People refer to me has her and she.

Sometimes said with deep contempt and misogyny.

I am a woman.

Something a male will never be.

I have a vagina and uterus.

I menstruate and have given birth.

I am a mother.

Something a male will never be.

I have been insulted, assaulted, belittled, dismissed, held back, intimidated, stereotyped, terrorised, mocked, shamed, humiliated because I am a woman.

Something a male can never be.

I feel insulted, appropriated, offended, anxious, tense, depressed, hurt and under siege, when a male claims to be a woman or anyone says a male can be female.

It is not civil or respectful to treat me this way.

I am a woman.

I am Spartacus.

It's a fact that without mumsnet I wouldn't have had a clue all this was even happening and I am now enraged.

Totally agree with prawn.

Originally mumsnet was not targeted, at all. Or very little. It was certainly my impression that the reason was because they didn't want to draw attention to it.

I've changed my mind completely.

They are not that self-aware. The own goal phenomenon is shockingly relentless.

So having drawn attention to mumsnet, they now have to shut it down.

But yet again, the OGP (I'm trademarking that) is working against them. The more outraged they become, the more people come to see why.

It really is a question of the devil and the deep blue sea. Sitting on their hands doesn't seem to be an option. Women talking is such an outrageous concept and such an affront, they have to intervene.

They either have to let women talk (not possible). Or try to stop them talking, which makes even more women talk and also adds a whole bunch of men to the Tsunami.

It's interesting, isn't it? We have various trans activists who're here regularly who tell us over and over again that the general public shares their perspective, and that we're the last holdouts of a bigoted position and that's why they just can't leave us to talk in peace, because our perspective is just so strange and unreasonable. And yet, are those the actions of people confident that most people share their perspective? Relentless targeting of this one forum and insistence that the things we're saying must never be said, and frequently repeated claims that we're recruiting? No, they're really not.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. I saw we open the curtains wide, let everyone take a look at the arguments coming from all directions, and then let the public make up its own mind.

Or say, even.

Prawnofthepatriarchy

Elenoftheways, when you say:

It's a fact that without mumsnet I wouldn't have had a clue all this was even happening and I am now enraged.

You sum up the exact reason activists are targeting Mumsnet. They are trying to change the law almost in secret, but can only promote their agenda while most people have no idea of the facts. Silencing, including threats and violence has to be their mode of operation because they cannot afford open debate.

Absolutely. And their desperation is showing more and more.

I am also Spartacus

Mumsnet has awoken me to what is happening in front of our very eyes. I thank every single one of you women whose posts have eloquently and patiently explained what is happening.

I'm for everyone living their lives however they wish, and calling yourself whatever you wish.

But I cannot deny biology and truth, and neither should society. Women have fought for too long to have the shitty not quite good enough rights we barely have. I'll die on this hill before those rights are eroded. Especially not by men.

I cannot accept my children being lied to at school about biology to suit the sensitivities of a few. Women matter. Truth matters. Facts matter.

I am a biological female. I have a uterus, have birthed children and fed them. I cannot be erased. We cannot be erased.

Completely agree Datun and Angry. Can't think of any other reason they would be so vociferous in trying to target MN.

Btw are we allowed to say p-havers and v-havers as per the video someone put up yesterday with the wonderful black american woman?

David Aaronovitch (chairman of Index on Censorship, the free speech advocacy organisation) wrote in The Times this week:

(extract)
"So I’ll take a much less amusing example. Last year the government promised changes to the Gender Recognition Act (GRA) which
would, among other things, give legal status to the gender choice of an individual, rather than to the biological sex that they were born with, without the need for lengthy psychiatric assessment.

Needless to say, such a change would be welcome for many trans people, who would no longer have to prove that they suffered from a nebulous condition dubbed “gender dysphoria”. But you don’t have to be a tabloid leader writer to see that there are some big problems to be dealt with here, some practical, some anthropological, some philosophical. “What,” my sportiest daughter asked, “about women’s sports?” People born biologically male are physically bigger, stronger and faster than biological women. So what about places designed to protect women from the possible consequences of that physical difference? Do we really want to say that we will not see the difference in experience between, crudely, someone with a womb and someone with a willy?

Maybe you do. Maybe I agree. But wouldn’t you also say that if ever there was a case for an “open debate” this was it? You can’t just make a change like this without arguing it through and hearing the other side."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/assaults-on-free-speech-are-led-by-the-left-l2r8t9t9p

I am Spartacus

I am not transphobic but I do not believe humans can change sex and I believe gender is a social construct which is largely harmful. Laws should not be made based on internal feelings.

I am Spartacus.

I like lego. I enjoy watching ballet. I do karate (badly). I draw and paint and make quite girly jewellery (but I tend not to wear it). I swear like a trooper. I love sci-fi and geeky things. I enjoy making cakes. I prefer a pint of decent bitter to a glass of wine, unless I feel like the other way around. I wear dresses and DMs and silly geeky Star Wars tops. I have a uterus, a cervix, ovaries, breasts that have clocked in about 7 years of nurturing. I am a woman. I can express my interests any way I like and they don't always plop into neat gender stereotyped pigeonholes, but I remain a woman.

I am not transphobic. Saying I am a woman and that men cannot be women is not transphobic.

Please consider scrutinising the previous and amended DSM diagnoses of gender dysphoria. I have a feeling these are key.

I've started a new thread on this

Sharetoken for the Times comment piece R0wantrees cites

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/assaults-on-free-speech-are-led-by-the-left-l2r8t9t9p?shareToken=51894e7ce5065ac35b94bdc0f363d4ec

It ends 'There's no "but" after "open debate". Apt words for Spartacii.

Been thinking about the new MN guidelines.

There has been an even bigger pushback recently against MN recently it seems, given how they have basically all but rolled over and shown their bellies for transactivists to scratch, only a few weeks after Justine stood up for us/free speech in the press. I wonder just how much the intensity has been kicked up.

We know that the onslaught has been huge for a while, to the stage where Milwall cancelled a meeting by feminists (Milwall, who must have seen a LOT of abuse in their time) and even MPs offices have apparently never seen anything like it. But HQ stood firm. They have dealt with MRAs before, and came out stronger for it (albeit the swatting must have been scary to stand)

Manfriday has been a huge sucess, and men are starting to wake up and complain, which like it or not, changes a lot. Maybe the tipping point has finally been reached, and transactivists know it? And they are desperately tying to stuff the genie back into the bottle now, but obviously not managing to. They wanted it all passed and changed before it got to this stage. Obviously it would have got to this stage anyway, but it would have been hard to undo. But stopping it in its tracks, for it to be kicked into the long grass, thats different.

Members have been saying for a while that it will get much worse, as narsisistic rage is something to behold if you have never seen it before. Are we maybe seeing this now? I know we cannot know exactly what goes on behind the scenes, but I find it very strange how HQ have stood firm for a long time now, only to seemingly do a total about turn. The whole bomb thing is fucking terrifiying too. I know its not been confirmed to be the same incident, but its a step up from threats, to actually making bombs

Ah crap. I am still Spartacus too. Male and female are real things, and wishing something does not make it true. Else I would be 4 stone lighter and a few million richer.

ErrolTheDragon

see also Professor Michael Biggs (Oxford) article:
'Free speech at Oxford:
Do women have the right to meet to discuss legislation?'

(extract)
"I have entered this debate not because I am a feminist but because freedom of speech is one of the highest values of a democratic society, and the basic foundation of university life.
Transgender activism poses a grave threat to freedom of speech."

users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/FreeSpeechOxford.pdf

Important quotes by women here:

ReSisters UK Twitter account:
"Women who refuse to be silenced"

twitter.com/ResistersUK

most recent posts

You all know Spartacus was a man, right?

What do you mean, a 'man'?

PersonWithAVulva - I must admit, it's dispiriting to see that MNHQ hung on and hung in, right up to the point that public awareness is growing and the tide is beginning to turn - and then caved. I think they will regret it.

There's a lot of history behind Spartacist movements, lots of women. Try Rosa Luxemburg.

@LuMarie had you RTFT you would know that this wry, witty observation has been made on page one and thereafter.

Just goes to show that feminists are not exclusionary and will readily accept a good idea and a strong principle when they see one,

Or have a sense of humour and / or an understanding of metaphor.

Don’t you think?

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeuw! Feminists with a sense of humour... noooooo!

I must admit, it's dispiriting to see that MNHQ hung on and hung in, right up to the point that public awareness is growing and the tide is beginning to turn - and then caved. I think they will regret it.

I think they will too. However, surely its got to be extremely extreme to make them U turn at this late stage in the game? They know public awareness is being raised. They know the issue is finally gaining serious traction. They will be able to see from their stats that feminism chat is a hell of a lot busier than its ever been for a long time (maybe ever? I have only been here 3 years or so so maybe it used to be much busier before me).

Like, they cannot be blind to this, somehow missing it all. They just can't be.

Are they still allowing the (absolutely stupid idea of) twitter reporting?

Just doesn't make any sense to me, especially hot on the heels of Justines other statement on this matter. There has to have been a drastic shift in how Justine/MN have been treat, to change everything to such an extent.

only a few weeks after Justine stood up for us/free speech in the press.

She stood up for free speech - the right to discuss potential consequences of a change in legislation, issues around sex and gender roles, the evidence base and healthcare for distressed gender non conforming children.

Not the right to deliberately misgender people when that has been clearly described as harassment by the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Or the right to make sweeping unpleasant scaremongering generalisations about trans women. Or the right to accuse other parents of mistreating their children when they seek support.