Transgender contributors - is a third space enough for you.

[Kettlepotblackagain]

There appears to be a few transgender users and contributors on mumsnet. I’d like to ask you directly. Why aren’t you campaigning for a third space? Is it important to you to be allowed to use the women’s spaces? Is it the threat of voilence in other spaces? If so can you not see your hypocrisy?

Please directly explain to me why you are not happy to have a separate space of your own.

There is no logic to their argument. I am told they require our acceptance as validation, our consent is not taken into account, it's all about telling males that they are women.

Specialist trans spaces and services should have been the answer, not colonisation.

But would that mean one space for m2f and f2m?

I dont know why there can't be unisex facilities anyway - but the most vocal of voices just want to have blanket access to female spaces and resources (there is a distinct silence when it comes to f2m demanding access to male loos/changing rooms etc but that's a other issue).

The answer to that ought to be obviously - that by defining a 'third space' you are 'othering' them.

It's just another iteration of the part that MN feminists (or at least the loudest ones) can't get over: you either accept trans women's self a identification as women (in which case: no third space required); or you don't (in which case: you can't understand why a third space is unacceptable).

I want to see all intimate spaces converted to private individual unisex accessible spaces. I think this is becoming a pressing need and I would join TRAs in campaigning for them.

If they did.

In my mind, this fictional third space is not a space specifically for trans people but it is a general unisex space for all people who don't care about being in a same sex environment. So a space for all males and all females and transpeople. While specific male and female only are also provided.
That way no one needs to be "outed" as being trans or forced into segregation or anything, as it's available to everyone.

I want to see all intimate spaces converted to private individual unisex accessible spaces. I think this is becoming a pressing need

I agree with you on this Sarah. Urgent I would say.

How do you have a private individual unisex prison?

How do you have a private individual unisex rugby match?

How do you have a private individual unisex Woman of the Year award?

How do you have a private individual unisex Girl Guide pack?

How do you have a private individual unisex prison?

You keep high risk people individually separate as they do now.

How do you have a private individual unisex rugby match?

EA says you can exclude from sports if there is a risk to health/ safety.

How do you have a private individual unisex Woman of the Year award?

No reason why you should want to. To exclude trans women from woman of the year is transphobic.

How do you have a private individual unisex Girl Guide pack?

uhhhh... you got me there.

I want to see all intimate spaces converted to private individual unisex accessible spaces.

Hospital wards?

I value female-only spaces, and want to keep them.

How do you have a private individual unisex Woman of the Year award?

No reason why you should want to. To exclude trans women from woman of the year is transphobic.

This just makes me laugh. Jenner, a nasty old bloke in a a corset, women of the year. Laughable, you make the word transphobic into a joke about you SMG when you say this stuff.

www.gofundme.com/fighting-for-female-representatives?viewupdates=1&rcid=r01-152882958171-d6308eb59b36405e&utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&utm_content=cta_button&utm_campaign=upd_n

That was going to be my response too serf. My question was talking about literal ‘space’ - changing rooms, toilets - but Rabbit has raised important questions and does there have to be a third ‘unisex’ everything? Would this be ‘enough’ for trans people? Isn’t the validation of recognised as being a woman (particularly) or man important?

Well that's the problem with this fictional third space isn't it. It's entirely depended on the user's social conscience. If they want to access the male or female only space they will anyway.

Nothing will be enough

Picasso - thanks for that link. I will be donating.

Make all male spaces unisex.
Keep women’s spaces for women.

EA says you can exclude from sports if there is a risk to health/ safety.

In most cases it's just a risk to fair play.

Women are only allowed some degree of consideration if we may be seriously injured, and even then some arsehole is sure to insist that it was our own fault for not staying home in the first place.

Ok by intimate spaces I mean the places where we pee, shower and change. I wasn't saying this would be a panacea!

Individual loos would help a lot, not only transgender people but also GNC people who suffer regular challenges and children at risk of GID. And Dads with their dds and disabled people and people who are very shy around all people and women who are menstruating and dealing with leakage and pregnant women with children who have no way of lifting them to the bloomin basins to wash their hands and all the women crossing their legs because the male architect didn't design enough loos into the building because he didn't care because there's always space in the men's. And men who are at risk from other men.

It boggles my mind how we're talking about these grand scale and expensive changes (such as making all toilets and changing rooms unisex) to suit such a minuscule proportion of the population. Then again, I remember that years ago they experimented with making hospital wards unisex, and that had nothing to do with trans. Maybe this is something that was coming anyway.

Many facilities are very poorly designed and the DDA has done a lot to improve things for everyone; not just disabled people. I think the same thing applies here. People were shocked about the potential implications of the DDA when it first came in.

It boggles my mind too just how high maintenance a few people are.

Yep. Maybe the "why are you such hard work?" aspect of things will be what eventually puts a stop to all this bollocks.