Male colleague - views on changing name

[Sailinghappy]

Just interested in what people think about this scenario.

Yesterday my male colleague (totally randomly) asked me if my surname was on my birth certificate. I said no, it's my surname through marriage. He openly laughed and said he was disappointed in me for taking my husband's surname at marriage. He said he thought he was "a better feminist" than me and that taking my husband's name is sexist. I told him I certainly am feminist and that I support women's choices, to do whatever they like. I wasn't forced to take his name, it was my decision and I'm happy with it!!

Do other people agree with my colleague or is he in the minority?

There is of course the argument put forward that the family should all have the same name. How does that work if you have children, then divorce and re-marry? Are the children supposed to change their names to their step-father's?

My mother married twice and divorced twice and never changed her name. My brother and I both have her surname.

He was rude.
but I'm with Lass, feminism is not about all women's choices being equal. The practice of women changin their names is clearly rooted in patriarchy and denotes who 'owns' us. I grant that we mostly have our fathers' surnames, but my surname is at least the one I have grown up with and acheived evrythin I have acheived with, it feels like mine. Why would I change it to DPs?
Call yourself what you like, wear what you like, do or don't shave but when you make a choice that jars against patriarchal norms it's another little drop of water to wear away the rock. Up to you whether you want to be that little drop of water, but be aware you have the choice because of the women who did.

Don’t you just love it when a man tells you he’s a better feminist than you because you didn’t do what he thinks you should’ve done…
Absolutely nothing about his perceived privilege revealed in that action at all there.

He said he thought he was "a better feminist" than me

Ladies and gentlemen, behold: the 'feminist' man in his natural environment.

(Women changing names on marriage is a patriarchal tradition and the language of 'choice' around it conveniently obscures the fact that it's almost always the woman making that choice. But as with high heels or full-time work, feminism is not a matter of making the right kinds of consumer choices, you don't 'fail' as a feminist by changing your name any more than you'll achieve feminism's goals by not doing. Also I bet your colleague hasn't changed or planned to change his name to a woman's.)

He was rude

Yes I agree. I doubt he had any genuine motive for questioning this. However defending this as a choice is depressing.

If it were fully discussed and the best options for both parties were taken into account one might expect 1/4 changing to the man's name;1/4 to the woman's; 1/4 double- barrelling and 1/4 no change.

All these awful surnames (which oddly only women ever seem to have) would disappear in a generation.

Yes, I regret changing my name. Tbh I regret getting married. Not because I don’t love my DH anymore, but because it’s an outdated patriarchal institution.
At the time I was a feminist, but also had romantic ideas about things I suppose. It doesn’t really matter that much. Except I am one of those little drops.

"All names are mens names, saying being the same as your DH not your father is sexist is illogical."

I disagree. Isn't it funny how men's surnames are assumed to be theirs at birth, but women's surnames are apparently only on loan until they take a husband? The patriarchal assumption is that women have no surname of their own and that their surname changes based upon changes of ownership between their father and any husbands.

The name that a woman is born with is HER name, just the same as the name her brother was born with is HIS name. It is not a man's name. It is a name.

That said, if a woman makes the decision to change her name on marriage, it is not the place of a man to question that under the guise of feminism. Name changing is a valid debate in feminism, but men can sit back and watch the debate from the bleachers. Quietly.

Name changing is a valid debate in feminism, but men can sit back and watch the debate from the bleachers. Quietly

I disagree. They could , without it being a personal attack as was the case here, actually consider the absurdity of why this practice is a given.

or they could change their own names

There is a conversation around the practice of women taking men's names on marriage, of course.

It's an interesting topic and a complicated one, when you cross it back to societal expectations, norms, upbrining, family expectations etc and so on.

The options that exist dont' contain an obviously best one either. The general options seem to be keep names and kids get men's name, double barelling (won't work as more and more people double barrell they'll get longer and longer!), making a new one up which is a nice idea but not that popular yet and does disconnect from everyone in the past, man takes woman's name (have known this happen). Otehr option - the couple keeps their own names and the kids have the woman's name, people will assume he is not their father. That's just the way it is, in our society. I think some people wouldn't be bothered with doing something they know will make most other people they meet draw the wrong conclusions!

There's no brilliant or easy answer, which is why it's always being talked about.

Anyway there are lots of conversations, this man wasn't having one though, he was being a grade A dick. What kind of a man digs into a woman's personal and home life choices (at work), finds something that allows him to say "HA! You're a shit feminist! You're not e feminist at all no matter what you claim! I'm more of a feminist than you!!". Now I hate this word but in this case it fits, he was being a nasty little bitch.

Also, men hate it when you call them bitches, undermines their ideas about gender and insults, although obviosuly the root is misogynistic it can be worth it to see the look on their faces. Only women are supposed to be "bitches" they really don't like being called on it I once called my dad a slut, he did not like that, his face was a picture of utter shock.

I am genuinely interested why women choose to take on their husband's name - the only reason I can see is so the 2 of them and any children all share the same surname. But as someone above said it's interesting that it's nearly always the woman who changes, not the man.

And while clearly it was her choice to make I wonder why Victoria Coren--Mitchell has that name but her husband remains David Mitchell?

I hated mine. It reminded me of my father. I was too chicken to change it prior to marriage.

On paper, we all know it’s crap, but in practice? Not so black and white. We are imperfect, and that’s okay.

FFS how is names a bigger issue than marriage itself?!

There's no brilliant or easy answer, which is why it's always being talked about

There is a perfectly simple answer. We all have names- why is there any need to change that name just because one is getting married?

If anyone hates their name - change it. No one has to wait until they get married to do so.

It is not uncommon for example for men with abusive fathers, or fathers from whom they want to distance themselves, to use their mother's surname. Ronan Farrow being a very high profile example but ordinary men do that too.

I can answer.

Feminist since little girl before I knew what it was.

Never particularly wanted kids, no ideas about fancy weddings, being a bride etc.

No-one was more surprised than me when I met DH and we got married and I took his surname

Reasons were:

• We intended to have kids (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered)
• His name was already double barrelled so adding another name wasnt going to work
• Thought about him taking my name but his name is much more important to him for reasons that are totally understandable while I'm meh about mine, just a name
• Thought about staying as we were and kids having either my name or his - I wanted us all to have the same name though - not sure why and obviosuly it's fine for families who don't, for me though, I wanted to, or at least I wanted same name as my kids. To have different name to kids felt even more patriarchal - I wanted them connected to ME! (Not saying that women with different names to kids are not connected I'm trying to answer the question honestly about how I felt)
• Thought about kids having my name, didn't even mention it as I thought however lovely a chap is, this is a stretch, especially as people WILL assume they are not his

So, I changed my surname.

Hope none of that has offended anyone - that's how I came to my decision.

In the scheme of things - and thinking about "identity" - I don't feel that strongly about names. Not my first name really either although it would be confusing for a bit if it were changed, I wouldn't mind. I'm me whatever my name is - I just don't really care that much.

And while clearly it was her choice to make I wonder why Victoria Coren--Mitchell has that name but her husband remains David Mitchell?

And it would have avoided her David Mitchell being confused with the considerably more talented other famous David Mitchell.

They could , without it being a personal attack as was the case here, actually consider the absurdity of why this practice is a given

They could and should consider it. They can also put their newfound enlightenment into practice in their own lives. However, they do not need to be debating the issue with and at women. This issue is for women to resolve and women who - at present - choose (a loaded word, I know) to change their name do not need to be told what to do by yet another Man Who Knows Best.

I think the reasons why are varied

However

The vast vast amount of women who change to their husbands name are doing it from non feminist patriarchal reasons

But there must logically the odd people who have a bloody good reason to change

Touble is because 90% do it 'cos its tradition" the 10% bloody good reason get lumped in

I am not one of the 10%....although i did have my reasons and dh wanted to change both our surnames

To 'wolf' so I probably had a lucky escape

We intended to have kids (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered)

I really don't get this one as an insurmountable argument.

He is outrageous in his approach and behaviour. But changing your name on marriage is not a feminist choice. That does not mean that if you change your name you are not a feminist. But is does mean that on this occasion, you have made a non feminist choice. As we all do sometimes for a myriad reasons.

But there must logically the odd people who have a bloody good reason to change

Of course there are. The ones with awful names or awful families but this narrow idea of changing your name because you are getting married presumably acts as a deterrent to any of them changing it just because they want to.

Do people know that you can change your name at any time just because - no reason needed?

It's none of his business but taking your husband's name on marriage is an anti-feminist choice.

I really don’t get this type of feminism that involves picking apart individual women’s choices rather than attacking patrilineal practices (like names being passed through men) or patriarchal institutions (like marriage).

My personal belief is that people, where they put some thought into something, tend to make the choice they feel is best for them.

It’s quite pointless IMO to be seeing a particular kind of individual choice as feminist or not when all the choices are made within the context of a patriarchal society.

My DSis is marrying next year, her fiancé is taking her name.

But that very seldom happens. The overwhelming practice of most married couples is for the woman to take the man's name. The societal expectation is so pervasive that it really is not a true choice for many women.

"I really don’t get this type of feminism that involves picking apart individual women’s choices rather than attacking patrilineal practices (like names being passed through men) or patriarchal institutions (like marriage)." But nothing will be done about the patrilineal practices while women collide with them. And it's not "picking apart other women's choices" - it's pointing out when those choices are not feminist ones. Feminism does not require us to support everything other women do, or assert that a choice is a feminist one just because a woman makes it. Feminism is more complex and robust than that.